Ukraine

[thomas michael]

hi john sabourn #431
good afternoon, i dont know if putin has any chinese in him but i think hes definitely due for a take out.
tom

[John Cassels]

Good evening Marian , ref your #434. At the risk of being branded a Putin admirer - which I am most certainly not - I must point out that for every point made about him starting
this conflict , there are similar proofs being made to the effect that American NATO and European aggresion has pushed him this far. Don't get me wrong , I would never condone
any war of any kind Is this any different to the American induced conflict in Yemen where it seems the death toll is much higher ?. The people of Yemen don't have a Zalensky to hand.

[Rodney Mills]

Ukraine. for 90% of its*history has been a ping-pong ball, batted alternatively between Poland, Lithuania, Tsarist Russia, Nazi Germany U.S.S.R. and today's Tsarist Russia wannabee Putin, with him as Tzar of all the Russer's and any other country that takes his fancy.

There were Huns, Goths Avars and in the mid-9th century. Vikings, known as the Rus, all came and occupied this Slavic Region*in what today is central Ukraine*and N.W. Russia.* Moscow would not be founded for another 200 years.

The Slavic population slowly absorbed the Viking overlords called themselves 'Rusyns'. Later came the Lithuanians, then Polish alternating with Russia, occupied and attempted to incorporate Ukraine, but they still managed to keep their form of the Slavic language and unique customs.* Many fled, in order to escape Polish domination' and formed themselves into bands, calling themselves 'outlaws' or 'Kosaks', (Cossacks as we know them).* The Rusyns*achieved*a short-lived independence in 1648 but were forced to make a treaty with Moscow.* This too did not become a happy relationship

Next came the Tsars who saw it*as part of the Russian nation, as does Putin, today's Tzar 'Wannabee'.

Followed*by the Bolshevik*revolution with once again Ukraine declaring its independence in 1918, Soviet troops seized control and that ended that..

The Soviets initially recognized Ukraine's differences*from Russia and recognized it as a 'Separate*ethnic*nation' with*their own language.* This came to a sudden end when Stalin seized power.* Ukrainians* were forcibly*removed from the eastern portion*of Ukraine and that region*of Ukraine repopulated with Russian settlers. That's where the dual language of today came from.

Comes WWII, the Ukrainians first saw the Nazis as liberators from Soviet domination and welcomed them, however, the Nazis saw Slavs as an inferior race and treated the Ukrainians harshly.

Now we come to today.

If you view this as a civil war and not a war for independence, how do you view Eire's war with the United Kingdom and becoming Eire,104 years ago.* And you called Eire's conflict a civil war in a pub in Dublin. Most around you* in that mythical pub were not a twinkle in their daddy's eye when their war of independence was being fought and won, but I am sure they would take extreme umbridge at you calling it a civil war.*

Nobody would get pissed here in the USA if you called the war of independence a civil*war, they'd just laugh at you, and put it down as British humor, which I might add, they and I love.

If they took a vote amongst native Americans (Indians to you) for the relocation of All Americans from a large segment of the country, then restoring* the land to pre-Columbus conditions, with clothing, tee-pees, weapons*of the time, etc., supplied,* restocking the land with game and relocating all who claim native American heritage*of a at least 25% parentage free relocation.* There wouldn't be too many takers. Why?* Gambling.* Areas of the United States have been declared tribal lands and given to proven tribes. Along story short, Other than Las Vegas*and Atlantic City and some card parlors in major cities there is no gambling...except on tribal lands (one is in walking distance from my apartment here in Oklahoma, I live outside the tribal land.* On these self governed tribal lands are high rise hotels with full games of chance that rival Las Vegas, even with big name shows in their showroom.* They have the management of the big casinos of Las Vegas operating them and* each native is wealthy, for just owning the tribal land and renting out the casino and hotel operations. The profits proportionally split for the future and payout monthly to each of the tribe's members. They are not in a hurry to turn back the clock and have to catch a rabbit for dinner tonight and have that nightly pee through the opening in their tee-pees.

The war going on today in the Ukraine is just another page in Ukraine's sad history, but their quest independence and freedom will not stop, and though they are tough and resolute race of people, sadly there maybe not much left, (with the power of today's weapons) for the victim or the aggressor.*

Rodney*

[j.sabourn]

#433.2 unexplained deaths to my mind which come to mind and there are others in the dim recesses , political I would assume as were an embarrassing encumbant , were Goering who managed to poison himself whilst in a prison cell. And Gadaffi who was assassinated in a crowd by an unknown assailant. But the biggest unexplained assassination of the last century was President Kennedy himself. All the literature that I read pointed to his actual death being a second shot into the back of his head , which pointed to an unfortunate accident by one of his own secret service agents who carried the one and only sniper rifle carried by his bodyguard. The same bodyguard never went on the stand or the rifle itself was never shown , the guard himself was supposedly stationed in Alaska shortly after , the head wound Kennedy received the bullet was never recovered , Kennedy’s head was removed and sent to Washington supposedly for family reasons. A lot of eye witnesses ‘s were never subpoenaed to give testimony at the inquiry. It’s all there published years ago and was never any big denials from government sources. People can believe what they want , but a lot of never solved deaths appear in history and every country has them .JS...

[Fouro]

The way I see it and keeping my post very short:-
President Putin will never go on trial unless the Russian people themselves agree to it.

Fouro.

[happy daze john in oz]

Since Adam was a boy and Cockie was in the egg countries have take over other countries.
Constant want for the 'greener grass' on the other side of the hill has caused man to behave in such manners as we now see in Putin.

Such men do not see right or wring, just the way they want to go, it is their way or the highway.

Reminds me of a manager I once knew, who always said there are three ways, the right way, the wrong way and my way.

Look back to the wars between UK and France, never really ended as there are many on both sides who cannot stand the other.
How will this skirmish end up, who knows, but one side will lose in some form or another, and though we may consider it to be just a local war it has impacts on the lives of half the worlds population.

[thomas michael]

hi john sabourn #437
good morning, without doubt your missive on unexplained deaths is a known phenomenon, when people in power have to explain their actions and whom where they involved with.
in the case of john kennedy i saw the documentary giving the detail you have spoken of, and whilst it does not explain who ordered the killing it explains the second shot.( as for removing his head for whatever reason i would have thought his working tackle should have been more of a intrest) as that seems to me sums him up in entirety. Now Gadaffi he was a whole new ball game, imagine if he was brought before the courts how he could explain the deals between him and george bush senior and junior, but best of all one of our twentieth centuries all time duche bags the honorable or horrible sir tony blair would now be incarcerated or possibly found dead in unexplained circumstances .
tom

[Graham Shaw]

Reading into some of the last dozen or so posts it does seem like the 'Conspiracy Theorists' with their 'conspiracy theories' ,or at least tales about them are about to feature in the thread...Reader.gif

I am a realist so I think I'll stop reading this thread for a while!

[j.sabourn]

#440 His head would of been on a pike. with shakespeares quote from Julius Caesar, " The evil that men do Live after them ." JS

[Keith Tindell]

John 432, I understand the points of the Russian bear etc, and no side is squeaky clean, but I was asking the question from yourself and Tom, if you think we in the West are taking the wrong path in opposing the mighty bear, how would you like to see us deal withe situation, just hypothetical because neither of us have any say in how to deal with it, so really asking your way to deal then.