Ukraine

[j.sabourn]

Like always actions speak louder than words. However look at our own history starting with the Spanish civil war. What did Britain do then officially. Volunteers yes official forces no. War between countries is not fought ad lib . It has always had to by convention have an official Declaration . Those who have in our lifetime have broken that rule have ultimately been defeated and at the moment that is the way it is going to happen again. The morality of Spain, Germany , Italy, Japan, all broke the morality rules and Russia has now broken them as well , regardless of their reasons they are in the wrong and one way or another the Russian people will inadvertently pay for it. The total Ruling party of Russia is wrong for letting it happen. The rules were broken and that is it. But as said when this started there are other countries who in a larger conflict would side with Russia , and that will be Russia’s only Hope at this moment in time . If things appear to be going in that direction stand by for the biggest bang in history. JS

PS Hitler took advantage of that civil war to use and exercise his Luftwaffe for the coming offensives which he intended to carry out, which couldn’t be more blatant , and any doubt of his intentions should have stuck out like a sore thumb. JS

[Graham Shaw]

Re #415 and #420
QUOTE 1 " I think that Mr.Zelensky uses the fog of war to much effect and his propoganda (sic)
has convinced some members of this forum that Putin is the bad guy and Russia the evil state - come what may."

QUOTE 2 "All I have been trying to put across for some time now is that there are always two sides to a story and my above statement is part of that. Every day appear reports of a dubious nature - the fog of war."




And similarly what I am saying is one should not pooh-pooh another's viewpoint on a subject simply because their opinions,gathered from whatever sources,do not fit in with one's own point of view-or ,more likely one's own brand of politics........,

[John Pruden]

did we not all see a tank heading right for a car and running over it do we not see hundreds of thousands forced to leave their homes do we not see buildings shelled every day and the dead buried where they fall is that what we call the fog of war is poland next and who is after them lets all face it putin is a mad man?jp

[Keith Tindell]

Des 418, Yes, we have and will supply more arms for Ukraine, Australia has committed to supply 70 million dollars of military arms and other types of war material, most decent countries have also done so.

[Graham Shaw]

did we not all see a tank heading right for a car and running over it do we not see hundreds of thousands forced to leave their homes do we not see buildings shelled every day and the dead buried where they fall is that what we call the fog of war is poland next and who is after them lets all face it putin is a mad man?jp

Yes John,that ties in with my thoughts... but only, those of a sceptical and biased ,unbelieving left wing,argumentative ,controversial ,bigoted (choose any,or all of those adjectives !) ...can't see,or don't want to see,what most of us see . Not dissimilar really to the Covid non-believers who will not acknowledge that many thousands have died. I wonder really how many Russians,or Chinese have died in the pandemic ?...someone,somewhere will say Zero,and that the rest of us are blind....
Those two nations don't even tell their fellow ministers the truth,never mind their own peoples.

[thomas michael]

hi keith #421
good morning, firstly i do not support the putin russian invasion of the ukraine,but we are fed a daily diet of controversial and misleading facts everyday about what russia is going to do or has done since i was a young school kid, and the facts leading upto the invasion by russia into the ukraine are just part of the long drawn out chess game by the west against the russian bear as it is nicknamed. and as a young seaman docked in georgia in the sixties i leaned over the rail off the deck and studied the russian navy in all its might as its black sea fleet i believe it was called, and i was amazed to see these rust buckets with washing hanging on anything that could hold a line off the stern, it looked like a washhouse laundry and reminded me instantly of the one i used to pass as a kid on scotland road in liverpool, also attending that laundry was some of the russian finest, ie enlisted men, they looked like tramps with a **** uniform or parts of it, combined with the sight that greeted me was numerous large women dressed like tramps, shovelling iron ore into its pile, and eveything around was just decay and dereliction, this memory i use to remind everybody that the newspapers at the time was stating on front pages of every newspaper of the imminent dangers of the might of the russian bear,
but i have been living under this narritive by the west since my childhood as well as the rest of you, but when i look at the incursions this country has been involved in the middle east all for political control and the safe export of the oil,and to date we are feeding a 100.000 dinghy divers from across the channel at five million pounds a day, combine that with a 100.000 ukraines, then there are three million chinese in hongkong with british passports and they have already been told that they can come to this country and be resettled Therefore dont just look at the ukraine and ask what i would do.because as john sabourn succinctly states in his missive about one big bang and we can stick our heads between our legs and kiss our arses goodbye.
tom















8

[j.sabourn]

When Putin’s propoganda is put out about The nazis in the Ukraine. Just google the Ukraine 1942 and see what he might be referring to. Also look at previous to this date and see the combined history that Russia shared with the Ukraine before certain parts were given away. As has been said there are two sides to every story .Putin already has broken the laws of humanity by invading what is now another country. However he is more than likely a true believer in his own mind that what he is doing is necessary for his country .I don’t doubt his patriotism to Russia , misplaced as it may well be. However one has to get inside his head to see his final solution , Hitler had one and he almost succeeded . A one on one with a Phsychiatrist might do him the world of good , he could be well due to a straight jacket and kept in solitary , there are probably many like him on all sides of any argument. JS

[thomas michael]

hi john sabourn #429
good- day your imformation of the ukraine nazis, i am well aware of and of the fact that they where of the most extreme in their treatment to prisoners,also of the russian population in the ukraine, and just as hitler used the protection of the german population in his invasion of poland, putin is now claiming he is protecting the russian population from ukraine nazis.
whatever the outcome, putin i believe will not stand trial, he will not be alive to do so.
tom

[j.sabourn]

You mean he will be the opposite to his name Putin and someone will rechristen him Takeout ? JS

[John Cassels]

It would be interesting to hear from the people who are , or seem to be supporting Russia here, what do they think should be the action that taken by us ??, should we just sit back and watch a whole country and its people be destroyed, with the atrocities being carried out ??, and then sit back and congratulate ourselves on our actions ??, and just let all the countries on the border with Russia live in fear. We could have done just that with Hitler remember him ?. Will be interesting to hear, kt

If you are including me in the people who seem to be supporting Russia then you're barking up the wrong tree. I have continually said from the outset that there are always
two sides to any story and both sides will furnish the world with their particular brand of propaganda. As far as I am lead to believe , both sides have commited more than
than their fair share of attrocities .