Liverpool Turnaround Terminal.

[Kenneth Kenny]

Hi Ivan,I know cadets worked hard I seen them when I went away to sea.in PSNC they really did work hard.anyway in 1966working on Indian ship in the North Horby dock it was cargo of bags of Bones in bags bugs crawling out of them seen the union Delegate said they were for making glue ,the bags were rotten falling to pieces enders shovelling them in Tubs when we got down the lower hold terrible stink.Took about aweek,when we came out the hatch one of the crew said the bones came from a cemetry wages Elven Pounds one shilling aweek and know protective clothing ,and know proper wash place then on the bus home.worked on carban black fish meal wet hides grain could go on.Anyway the captain only done it for about two years.Brother Alex in the Merchant Navy deep sea 41years pirates came on a few ships he sailed on.The Captain had his say and you and myself,don't run working class down if you haven't done that job. From Ken.

[John Gill]

having read the posts relating to the issues why the decline of the Liverpool docks was due to the working practices of those employed to load and unload ships, I believe that the inevitable progress of technology was more instrumental for it's demise. Surely those men who did 'work the welt' must have realised that all good things must end. There is never an alternative to the philosophy of a fair days work for a fair days pay.
gilly

[John Pruden]

yes john containerisation was shunned by Liverpool dockers they missed out by not moving with the times but now we handle a great deal of tonnage per annum i know i can see the ships from my upstairs window and pass the terminal every day i could never understand why the MDHB never widened the other docks by digging out the walls between them knocking two docks into one large dock there is plenty of space for another terminal and it would not lay empty? just a thought JP

[Kenneth Kenny]

Hi Jim,you hit the nail on the Head,I did get upset by what they said, and i'am not sorry what I said could have said more,like to meet them face to face and see how
Good they are.My dad went to sea in two world wars never complained like most men did run people down.Thanks Jim Take Care From Ken.

[Kenneth Kenny]

My Dad,like most men did not run people down held there heads high,doing theses emails on my iPod make Agee mistakes.Enjoy your Holidays Jim.From Ken.

[happy daze john in oz]

Go back and read my posting " Then and Now' Jan 2012 under Cruise Ships, it does I believe put the issue of how the trade changed into perspective.
I never sailed from Liverpool so cannot comment on the methods used there, but if they were like the dockers here in Oz at that time then I hate to think what they got up to. Dockers here were so bad there were shipping companies that would not enter Australian ports.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ivan and Chris,with respect can you not read between the lines I'm surprised that you replied to Kens post.I've had a pint with Ken and he is passionate about Liverpool and the Liverpool dockers,he is a very nice guy and maybe he does get carried away a bit if he thinks Liverpool dockers are being picked on and he will take a stance on that matter.
Regards.
Jim.B

Jim you have the advantage of knowing Kenneth and if you say he is a very nice guy then I believe that, as most Scousers I met were. Unfortunately I could not read between the lines and still cannot, but Kenneth is fortunate enough to have a friend like you to defend him.

I wasn't having a go at Kenneth as such but only his comments. Kenneth assumes that everyone who was not a docker never did any hard work, and that anyone who wore a uniform was a toff and were not working class, whatever that is, anyway whatever it is I was definately from it my father having been AB/Bosun in the MN, squadie in the Army during WWII, bus driver, furniture van driver and numerous others during his time. I was on deep sea trawlers out to the Barents Sea when I was 13 and that was hard work (no allowances made for your age) and working class. But I do give credit to those men who had the tenacity to get themselves to the positions they did and as mentioned in another post, if there had been no ships with toffs to guide them there would be no dockers and indeed no Great Britain as we would have all starved to death and without the traders in the City in their ivory towers trading commodities there would have been no need of ships. We all need each other to make the world and our country and its individuals to survive, so we all need each other no matter how we are dressed, no matter our education levels, no matter our physical input, we are all spokes in a wheel that connect to the rim that makes us go around

Ah well that's enough pontificating for a Saturday morning!

[Chris Allman]

I can only once again echo Ivan's wise words. I could say a lot more too Kenneth. Words about dockers, the frustrating and wasted hours of my seagoing career spent cargo watching so as to stop it disappearing and sitting on an empty ship for days because of strikes. But I will say no more.

[Kenneth Kenny]

Hello Captain,sorry if i upset you,but you did the same to me.Anyway i was in the Merchant Navy for Five and Half years deep sea,i did have respect for all the people i sailed with and life in general today,i have always got on in any walk of life,colour or creed,unless with one email.Member of the Vindicatrix Ass.for over Eleven years,all exseaman,LIVERPOOL Branch.One of the seaman was Ken Pearce excaptain of TJHarrison shipping co.Had a major Operation went to see for few hours each time when in hospital, and my wife went in to see him, been to his house half dozen times,great bloke,plus many others out the branch.Was in the World ship Society for ten years Captain Jones was a member,had respect for him and all the members.So lets have a good laugh.Take Care from Ken

[Captain Kong]

We didnt all have it easy Kenneth, I was on deck and AB for over twenty four years, [also ex Vindi Ass. be there again this year].
By 1975, with the influx of people from Gravesend Sea School a Two Week Course coming out with an ABs Certificate and never set foot on a ship. My ABLE SEAMANS CERTIFICATE was now worthless, a train ticket on Mersey Rail was worth more than my ABs ticket.
There were no ships of our generation left, only Containers, Bulkers and tankers, no need for good experienced ABs there, we were now Dynosaurs. All they needed on deck now was Deck Labourers. there was no pride left in being a good AB.
At the age of 40 I was on watch on a large VLCC the Mate stood for four hours on the Starboard bridge wing and me stood on the Port bridge wing during a night watch. I got to figuring out. Why is he on more than twice the wage I am on, and also does shorter voyages, has better and longer leave and better accommodation. I also chased a Senior Cadet, Acting Third Mate around the wheelhouse, he was smoking and told me I could not smoke.
The company offered me a chance to go to College for six months and all on full pay and expences.
I figured that at the age of 40 I had no where else to go, so I took up their offer. and six months later I entered the Chart Room with a brand new Certificate. and the rest is history.
Best move I ever made. I had done my whack on deck, 24 years, and enjoyed almost every minute, done the dirtiest and toughest jobs any AB could put his hands too. but the game had changed and was now unrecognisable, I could have been happy as an AB all my working life but could not beat the system.
I was always good with the ABs, there was nothing they could do that I could not and many a time I went aloft and over the side when they were scared to do so and I enjoyed it.
Any AB who has sailed with me can testify to that.
Every man is in charge of his own Destiny.
So Kenneth , we are not all ballbags, see you at the Vindi in August if your there, no free ale this year, my brother in Knowlsley has sold his Brewery. Now he was a good Able Seaman for many years, then at the same time as me went to College and ended up as a Master Mariner and then retired and became a Master Brewer, a Sailors dream, owning his own Brewery. All he needed was a deaf and dumb girl friend.
Cheers
Brian.