Trinity House

[Brian Probetts (Site Admin)]

This is a copy of a letter sent by Ivan Cloherty to Rear Admiral Sir Jeremy de Halpert KCVO CB FRIN


31st October 2011

Jasmine Cottage
9 Lisburne Square
Torquay TQ1 2PT



Deputy Master
Rear Admiral Sir Jeremy de Halpert KCVO CB FRIN
The Corporation of Trinity House
Trinity House
Tower Hill
London EC3N 4DH



Dear


Merchant Navy Memorial Tower Hill


Thank you for your letter of 28th October.
First and foremost whilst we laud the efforts and contributions made to various Merchant Navy organisations by Trinity House; your assumption that we may be recipients of your largesse is totally incorrect. Your inference that I did not wish to name our organisation was also incorrect, it was a lapse of memory and manners for which I apologise.

Our forum, The British Merchant Navy - Looking for old friends, which has at this time 6571 members is a totally private enterprise, founded by Mr Brian Probetts an ex Merchant Navy man. Our site is financed by Mr Probetts from his own pocket plus voluntary contributions from our site’s members, when we are able.
Our members are mainly Merchant Navy personnel of all ranks, with some from the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and Royal Navy. It was founded to enable current and ex MN personnel, and their families to keep in touch. To-date we have assisted long lost relatives to gain contact with each other. Help others to come to terms with their grief and uncertainty of what happened to family members who were lost at sea in two World Wars. Giving them fuller details than they had hither-to. We have traced Merchant Navy family members and their ships back to the 18th Century to help those families with their lineage. All our members do this on a voluntary basis.


We were disappointed to note in your response that a certain point raised in my previous letter remained unanswered, mainly:-

• Are you going to use your best efforts and undoubted influence to ensure that no "Entertainment" organisations will be able to use any part of the Memorial Garden for partying purposes in future

　
Your statement that Trinity House is not the custodian or guardian of Trinity Square Gardens is noted. However surely you must feel it incumbent upon yourself and the organisation you represent to protect the sanctity of the Memorial to those that gave their lives. All those now living, whether in privileged positions or lowly positions owe much to these men, without whom our fighting forces would have had nothing to fight with. Nor would they have reached their wartime theatres of operation.
No doubt we can both imagine the uproar if partying were to be allowed at the Cenotaph or various Royal Navy memorials around these Sceptred Isles. I do hope that history is not going to repeat itself with our Merchant Navy being deserted in its hour of need.
We were unaware that you had initiated and co-ordinated any campaign which you say led directly to those letters from far afield that we received. The responses we received were from our own efforts. We formulated our own campaign because of the apparent lack of interest by others, although I do notice that there are now many bandwagons on the Prairie.
Yours respectfully

　
Ivan Cloherty
Discharge A Number R611450
Telephone 01803 211350

Email ivanjcloherty@hotmail.co.uk


c.c. Captain Ian McNaught (Deputy Master Desig)

[Roger Dyer]

Hello Brian,

Thank you for your post. What a 'gem' we have in Ivan ? I think his latest letter on our behalf might even surpass the excellence of his original letter to Sir Jeremy de Halpert.

One would have thought that rather than dig themselves a larger hole by repeatedly trying to minimalise their involvement in this unseemly affair, Trinity House would have been better served in the first instance by issuing a statement regretting and apologising for their error of judgement. That they chose to act in such a duplicitous manner is something they may live to regret. To try and present themselves as the 'standard-bearers' of opposition to an ill-conceived plan, in which they themselves were complicit, is worthy of our derision.
Like many of my fellow members, I'm sure, I now await Sir Jeremy's reply with baited breath.

Brian, may I take this opportunity to thank you for your valued support in this matter.

........regards, Roger.

[Tony Morcom]

Well done Ivan.He won't be expecting that!

[happy daze john in oz]

From what I have read to date it would appear that Trinity House are of the opinion they have nothing to answer for. I think it is time they entered the real world and began to act as they should, as custodians of all things maritime, particularly the memory of the Merchant Seamen who paid the ultimate sacrifice so they could be where they are today.

[Chris Allman]

Thank you Ivan for another excellent well formulated letter and thank you Brian for your full support is this sorry episode.

I too look forward to the reply and fail to see how the Deputy Master can wriggle out of this one. Should he once more, attempt to, or omit to cover the points raised, then he definitely has something to hide and should not be in the position he is. To repeat the omissions, is failing in his duty towards all Merchant Seamen, retired and serving and to those who lost their lives in the service of this country. Let us hope that common sense and decency prevails.

Chris.

[George]

Hi All, Firstly a thank you to Ivan for his letter to Trinity House. I said in the previouse thread (This Will Make Your Blood Boil) that I diden't trust Trinity House. So maybe we the members of this site should look at ways of getting a permanent Law that will stop this from ever coming up again. Maybe if we hounded our MP's, or the Priminister (I hold Little Faith in Him) or dare I say it the Queen. Maybe we could campain to have the Tower Hill site put in the hands of say the War Graves Commision. I couldn't see them allowing Parties to take place there. These are just my thoughts, and I feel sure that the moore learned amongst us could improve on them.
George in Southampton

[Ivan Cloherty]

Hi All, Firstly a thank you to Ivan for his letter to Trinity House. I said in the previouse thread (This Will Make Your Blood Boil) that I diden't trust Trinity House. So maybe we the members of this site should look at ways of getting a permanent Law that will stop this from ever coming up again. Maybe if we hounded our MP's, or the Priminister (I hold Little Faith in Him) or dare I say it the Queen. Maybe we could campain to have the Tower Hill site put in the hands of say the War Graves Commision. I couldn't see them allowing Parties to take place there. These are just my thoughts, and I feel sure that the moore learned amongst us could improve on them.
George in Southampton

Thank you George and all others for your kind words, it makes my efforts worthwhile, as these letters do take some thought. As you can imagine being an ex seaman I would like to be a bit more blunt, alas very blunt letters are consigned to Davey Jones locker without being read.

The Commission for War Graves are there to protect actual grave sites, of course by the very nature of their calling our fellow seamen have none, however a dialogue is being set up. Also HRH the Duchess of Cornwall is a staunch supporter of War Memorials and she along with others devote a lot of time in trying to combat ways of them not being desecrated. So I shall be contacting the Duchess through her offices.

Of course it all takes time, and responses from those addressed are not quick, as they do not wish to commit words to paper which may be used against them at some future date. Even if they inwardly sympathise with the cause under discussion.

Looks like I'm never going to get that sandpapering finished in the hall!

I asked Brian to start a new thread "Trinity House" so we could keep it seperated from "Makes your Blood Boil" which hopefully may make it easier to keep track of our wayward Rear Admiral. So thank you Brian for offering this facility, it is appreciated.

[john sutton]

sorry to steal someones thread but i dont know how to start a new one




Please Keep This Going,



it's Important!



Barry Whiteley, British and proud of it!

Airline Lunches


I put my carry-on in the luggage
compartment and sat down in my
assigned seat.
It was going to be a long flight from Gatwick.
'I'm glad I have a good book to read
Perhaps I will get a short sleep,' I thought.

Just before take-off, a line of British Army Youngsters
came down the aisle and filled all the vacant seats,
totally surrounding me.
I decided to start a conversation.
'Where are you blokes headed?' I asked the
Young man seated nearest to me.

Cyprus . We'll be there for two weeks
for special training, and then we're being deployed to Afghanistan .
After flying for about an hour,
an announcement was made that
lunches were available for five pounds.
It would be several
hours before we reached Cyprus ,
and I quickly decided a lunch would
help pass the time..

As I reached for my wallet,
I overheard a soldier ask his mate if
he planned to buy lunch.
'No, that seems like a lot of money for
just an airline lunch.
Probably wouldn't be worth five Quid.
I'll wait till we get to Cyprus ....
His mate agreed.

I looked around at the other soldiers.
None were buying lunch.
I walked to the back of the plane
and handed the flight attendant a
fifty Pound note.
'Take a lunch to all those soldiers..'
She grabbed my arms and squeezed tightly.
Her eyes wet with tears,
she thanked me.
'My young bloke was a soldier in Iraq ,
it's almost like you are doing it for him..'

Picking up ten lunchboxes,
she headed up the aisle to where the
boys were seated.
She stopped at my seat and asked,
'Which do you
like best - beef or chicken?'

'Chicken,' I replied, wondering
why she asked..

She turned and went to the front of plane, returning a minute
later with a dinner plate from first class.
This is your thanks.

After we finished eating,
I went again to the back of the plane,
heading for the rest room.
An old bloke stopped me.
'I saw what you did.
I want to be part of it.
Here, take this.'
He handed me twenty-five
Pounds..
Soon after I returned to my seat,
I saw the Captain coming
down the aisle, looking at the aisle numbers as he walked, I hoped he wasn't looking for me, but noticed he was looking at the numbers
only on my side of the plane.
When he got to my row he stopped, smiled,
held out his hand, and said,
'I want to shake your hand.'

Quickly unfastening my seat-belt I stood and took the Captain's hand.
With a booming voice he said, 'I was an army pilot a long time back.
Once someone bought me lunch.
It was an act of kindness I never forgot.'
I was embarrassed when applause
was heard from all of the passengers.

Later I walked to the front of the plane
so I could stretch my legs.
A kid who looked about 18 was sitting about
six rows in front of me reached out his hand, wanting to shake mine.
He left another twenty-five Pounds
In my palm.

When we landed I gathered my belongings and started to depart.
Waiting just inside the aeroplane door was a man who stopped me, put something in my shirt pocket, turned, and walked away without saying a word.
Another twenty-five Pounds!

Upon entering the terminal,
I saw the soldiers gathering for their
Trip up to their training area..
I walked over to them and handed
them seventy-five Pounds.
'It will take you some time to
reach your training area. It will be
about time for a sandwich.
God Bless You Blokes.'

Ten young blokes left that flight feeling
the love and respect of their fellow Brits.
As I walked briskly to my car,
I whispered a prayer for their safe return. These soldiers were
giving their all for our country.
I could only give them a couple of meals.
It seemed so little...

A British Serviceman is someone who,
at one point in his life, wrote a blank
cheque made payable to
' United Kingdom '
for an amount of
'up to and including my life.'

That is Honour, and there are way
too many foreigners in this country
who don't understand it.'

May you have the strength and
courage to pass this along to
everyone on your email mates list....

I JUST DID!

john sutton

[Ivan Cloherty]

[QUOTE=john sutton;71254]sorry to steal someones thread but i dont know how to start a new one




Please Keep This Going,



it's Important!



Barry Whiteley, British and proud of it!

Airline Lunches



Thank you for that John, most moving. I'm sure one of our whizz kid moderators will be able to start a new thread with it

[Pete Leonard (Bruno)]

Nicely put Ivan.

I know that the Royal Family do not normally get involved in this sort of dispute, but I feel sure that Prince Philip would set the ball rolling if he were made aware of it. He saw active service throughout WW2 and would be sympathetic if someone were to blow in his ear.