Trinity House

[Roger Dyer]

Hi Ivan and shipmates,

I was surprised to learn of your recent conversation with Sir Jeremy de Halpert. It was the first sign of a positive response for all the hard and much appreciated work you have carried out on our behalf. How gratifying to gain the assurance from Sir Jeremy that during his term of office we can expect the full support of Trinity House in our quest for rightful recognition of the sanctity of the memorial at Tower Hill.

Nevertheless, we should not lose sight of what has gone before. Forgive me for being suspicious, but the assurances by Sir Jeremy were made during the course of a private telephone conversation which, if need be, can be refuted at a later date. Ivan, please don't worry that the conversation was not 'recorded', it might be just as well you didn't. Here in Oz it is a criminal offence to record a telephone conversation without the knowledge of the person(s) so engaged (unless with lawful authority). I imagine a similar law would exist in the U.K. It follows that by making a personal telephone call to you Sir Jeremy would know he was on safe ground. I realise I'm not telling you and fellow members something you don't already know, but I cannot help but wonder if the telephone call was not simply a tactical ploy to calm our rising concerns and hopefully lay the matter to rest without risk of further embarrassment to Trinity House.

Given the serious nature of this matter and if, as I would hope, Sir Jeremy is sincere about this, he would surely understand our need for written confirmation of the assurances he gave to you. I have no wish that we as a group should continue to be seen as a cause of concern to Trinity House, but if we fail to obtain written confirmation of their goodwill in this matter then we are being less than prudent and may later regret it.

By holding this view, Ivan, I realise that I'm probably asking more of you than I/we have a right to (heaven knows you've already done far more than we could have hoped for), but in light of recent history can we really afford to do otherwise?

...............best regards, Roger.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Hi Ivan and shipmates,

I was surprised to learn of your recent conversation with Sir Jeremy de Halpert. It was the first sign of a positive response for all the hard and much appreciated work you have carried out on our behalf. How gratifying to gain the assurance from Sir Jeremy that during his term of office we can expect the full support of Trinity House in our quest for rightful recognition of the sanctity of the memorial at Tower Hill.

Nevertheless, we should not lose sight of what has gone before. Forgive me for being suspicious, but the assurances by Sir Jeremy were made during the course of a private telephone conversation which, if need be, can be refuted at a later date. Ivan, please don't worry that the conversation was not 'recorded', it might be just as well you didn't. Here in Oz it is a criminal offence to record a telephone conversation without the knowledge of the person(s) so engaged (unless with lawful authority). I imagine a similar law would exist in the U.K. It follows that by making a personal telephone call to you Sir Jeremy would know he was on safe ground. I realise I'm not telling you and fellow members something you don't already know, but I cannot help but wonder if the telephone call was not simply a tactical ploy to calm our rising concerns and hopefully lay the matter to rest without risk of further embarrassment to Trinity House.

Given the serious nature of this matter and if, as I would hope, Sir Jeremy is sincere about this, he would surely understand our need for written confirmation of the assurances he gave to you. I have no wish that we as a group should continue to be seen as a cause of concern to Trinity House, but if we fail to obtain written confirmation of their goodwill in this matter then we are being less than prudent and may later regret it.

By holding this view, Ivan, I realise that I'm probably asking more of you than I/we have a right to (heaven knows you've already done far more than we could have hoped for), but in light of recent history can we really afford to do otherwise?

...............best regards, Roger.

Roger

Thank you for your kind words and sage advice, personally I don't think Sir Jeremy would have the gall to recant his words, as they are already published on this site to be read by many, but of course I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time!. I would ask Brian if he is reading this not to delete this thread for at least a year.

Whilst I concur it would be nice to have something in writing, to press for something in writing may very well alienate the support we have been assured is there for the cause. Whilst my heart demands something in writing my head tells me that we must play this game of politics and trust the Sir Jeremy is a man of honour that the title "Sir" demands, although I am aware that the Knights of the Round Table was probably a figment of an author's imagination.

I would not want Sir Jeremy to think that we doubt his word until such time he gives us cause to, I certainly hope we will not be placed in that invidious position. We have to have someone we can believe in. He surely knows by now that we have a voice and will be "on watch" throughout the long voyage ahead to make sure his words steer a straight and steady course.

Once again I can only thank you for yours, Brian's and the boys for the support you have shown my efforts, it is very humbling and gratifying and you can be assured of my best efforts against anyone who slights our fallen comrades memory.

Regards Ivan

[Chris Allman]

I understand entirely from where Roger is coming from however, I also understand where Ivan is coming from also. This is a difficult decision to make but after careful thought and regard to Roger's thoughts on the matter, which part the written reply I agree with, I personally, have come to the conclusion that the direction Ivan is going in, is the right course to steer.

Our problem is that in today's society, we are now so used to being ripped off one way or another by everyone, politicians, financial institutions and indeed many people whom we trust or indeed trusted, we have become very suspicious. ' Once bitten, twice shy ' is a natural position to be in these days, as we have suffered so much dishonesty and blatant lies from people we thought were honourable and reliable.

On this occasion, I think that we have to accept the word of Sir Jeremy as given to Ivan, no matter how we feel, but also accept it with reservations and not lower our guard. I have put a reminder on my computer to check every three months on the Moving Venue website to see if Trinity Gardens is mentioned in any way. This I hope will serve as an early warning in case positions are reversed. Could I be cheeky and perhaps ask if others could do the same in case ( perish the thought ) my computer goes down.

I am very honoured to be amongst such members as this site has and I am in admiration of the depth of feelings and action that this sorry saga has initiated amongst us all. There will never be another organisation in my mind, that had and in fact still has, such a depth of comradeship and fellowship that the British Merchant Navy instilled in us all that served in it. Long may you and it remain and flourish.

Chris

[Roger Dyer]

Hi Ivan and Chris,

Thank you both for understanding my reasons for posting as I did and for not casting aside my views without some consideration. Please know that I most certainly respect the opinions expressed by you both and the reasons for your opposing points of view. Sad as it may seem, at the present time I'm not sure that I can share your faith in the words of one man, even though he may be worthy of our trust. Ivan, I still believe that your last letter was deserving of a written reply from Sir Jeremy in which to convey his assurance of support. I am sure that Sir Jeremy is well aware that that would have been the correct approach. That he chose to contact you by telephone? only he would know why. The fact that he did speak to you personally may go some way towards gaining a renewed trust from some of our fellow members, but the pessimist within wonders whether the call was made simply as a sop to soothe the hearts and pander to the egos of we angry men.

Either way, I have no wish to upset the 'apple cart' and accordingly will accept the wisdom of others on this one. Having said that, can I assume that we intend to press on in our pursuit of official recognition and eternal respect for the memorial site at Tower Hill ?.

.....................regards, Roger.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Hi Ivan and Chris,

Thank you both for understanding my reasons for posting as I did and for not casting aside my views without some consideration. Please know that I most certainly respect the opinions expressed by you both and the reasons for your opposing points of view. Sad as it may seem, at the present time I'm not sure that I can share your faith in the words of one man, even though he may be worthy of our trust. Ivan, I still believe that your last letter was deserving of a written reply from Sir Jeremy in which to convey his assurance of support. I am sure that Sir Jeremy is well aware that that would have been the correct approach That he chose to contact you by telephone? only he would know why. The fact that he did speak to you personally may go some way towards gaining a renewed trust from some of our fellow members, but the pessimist within wonders whether the call was made simply as a sop to soothe the hearts and pander to the egos of we angry men.

Either way, I have no wish to upset the 'apple cart' and accordingly will accept the wisdom of others on this one. Having said that, can I assume that we intend to press on in our pursuit of official recognition and eternal respect for the memorial site at Tower Hill.

.....................regards, Roger.

Roger

In the circle that Sir Jeremy moves in it probably took more courage to make a phone call than it did to write a letter, he was after all phoning an unknown quantity. So with respect for common decency and courtesy I am obliged to give the man the benefit of doubt. To me he sounded sincere and he did apologise for any misunderstanding and I have to go with that. Lets hope he does not prove me wrong. He did not have an obligation to telephone or write to me, but he did, so one must give credit where credit is due. I try to think the best of my fellow men, rather than think it was a cynical ploy to keep the peasants quiet. I am assuming from the tone of the letters he did receive he quite rightly assessed that this was something that was not going to go away quietly, if ignored.

As I've said before, I among others will do our utmost to persevere in the common goal of seeing that no one infringes upon the common decency and respect that is due to our lost comrades. For the moment the waters are calm and the horizon seems clear, but we shall stay aloft, alert and be aware of what is around us to ensure that our comrades stay safe in their only known place of rest. Whilst we are all in charge of the rudder this vessel's course will remain true to the ideals that we have set ourselves.

Ivan

[Tony Morcom]

I suspect that given the wide spread condemnation of the original project idea, no matter who instigated it, this site is now being monitored by the relevant powers. They will be, by now, under no illusions as to the widespread and heartfelt feelings of those that we as a community represent. To some we may seem like a bunch of old fogeys reminiscing about a bygone age that few have little knowledge of or care about. However we have proven, through the words and efforts of Ivan, that there is life in the old sea dogs yet and that once again the Merchant Navy is a force to be reckoned with. I would be very surprised if I van does not receive a written reply before too long. Personally I think on reflection that we have probably achieved all that we are going to on this matter but agree that we should all watch for signs of it happening again in the future. One thing is for certain, Ivan would not have achieved what he has, if it were not for the fact that he was representing the 6500+ of us that have the common vested interest in seeking respect for those who went before us and sadly never came home. WELL DONE IVAN AND WELL DONE BRIAN PROBETTS FOR BUILDING THIS SITE IN ORDER THAT WE MIGHT ALL HAVE OUR FEELINGS MADE KNOWN.

Sincerely

[Keith at Tregenna]

3.3 Conserving the heritage of Trinity Square Gardens

3.3.1 Cultural heritage

We understand the cultural heritage of the site very well. We are committed, through this plan and by the terms of the Heritage Lottery Fund grant, to maintaining the significance of the site. We will achieve this by avoiding actions that would adversely affect the cultural heritage and by delivering actions that would promote it. Much of this management plan and the action plan is expressly directed at this aim. [See Section 2.4for information on the significance of the site.]

3.7.6 Events The main events in these Gardens are the two national, annual services of remembrance. The Merchant Navy Association has been organising an annual service and wreath laying on the first Sunday of September for about 8 years. Both the numbers attending and the complexity of the vent have grown over this time. The Worshipful Company of Mariners organises the annual service of remembrance and wreath laying on Remembrance Sunday in November each year.

The site is too small for other events in general, although it is used for occasional events such as the start of the Tour de France 2007, when it hosted VIP viewing. Other small events take place here from time to time.

LINK: TRINITY SQUARE GARDENS MANAGEMENT PLAN 2008 to 2018

THIS MAY NEED AN URGENT LOOK AT: http://www.merchant-navy.net/forum/f...-box%94-12558/

K.

[Capt Bill Davies]

I suspect that given the wide spread condemnation of the original project idea, no matter who instigated it, this site is now being monitored by the relevant powers. T.

Sincerely

Do you really believe that Tony? The relevant powers as you describe them, are so far detached from reality sitting in their 'Ivory Towers' that I do not think they are giving the concerns any thought at all. At the end of the day they will do exactly what they want and then do a 'fire fighting exercise'.

Brgds

Bill

[Keith at Tregenna]

NEEDS MORE LOOKING INTO:

NOT BOTHERING IS EASY:

EVEN IF ALL IS DUBIOUS, OR INCORRECT AT LEAST TAKING PRECAUTIONS, KEEPS US ONE STEP AHEAD ? For them, the past and the future: WE CAN DO NO LESS.

LINK: http://www.merchant-navy.net/forum/f...-box%94-12558/

K.