Bye.bye, Red Ensign on the Queens.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Herewith my letter to John Prescott, in which Brian has sanctioned the use of the website name, for which I remain gratefull. Letters will follow to Prince Charles and Prince Philip, may as well aim high.
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1st November 2011 Jasmine Cottage
9 Lisburne Square
Torquay TQ1 2PT

The Office of The Rt Hon Lord Prescott
House of Lords
London
SW1A 0PW

Dear Lord Prescott,

Disrespect to Her Majesty

I write on behalf of 6500 plus members of our forum, www.Merchant-Navy.net. Our members are mainly Merchant Navy personnel of all ranks, with some from the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and Royal Navy.
It is with regret that we learn the Liners “Queen Elizabeth” “Queen Mary 2” and “Queen Victoria” will be scheduled to sail under the Bermudan flag and not the Red Ensign. The process has already started. Whilst not wanting to disparage the Bermudan flag as a state flag, it is considered a “Flag of Convenience” by most seafarers, and associated by many with UK tax evasion.
We consider it disrespectful to Her Majesty that these three liners, named after members of our Royal Family, will have “Hamilton” painted on their sterns, when it should be Liverpool or Southampton or London. These vessels are scheduled to be at the Southampton review, on the occasion of Her Majesty’s Diamond Jubilee celebrations in 2012; it would be a disgrace to have a foreign port of registry displayed on what are considered British icons.
Cunard, the operators, state that this reflagging enables them to take advantage of the lucrative “at sea” wedding market; these facilities not being available to them whilst sailing under the Red Ensign. Surely it is not beyond the whit of officialdom to grant these vessels, and other cruise vessels under the Red Ensign an exemption allowing them to perform such ceremonies. After all certificates seem to be granted to all and sundry, even a Beach-Hut on Bournemouth beach.

My Lord may we seek your assistance, and those of your fellow Lordships, in trying to reverse this mercantile travesty. Also with the undoubted expertise available amongst their Lordships within the House, investigate the possibility of giving the aforementioned vessels the facility to perform onboard weddings; so that they could be returned to their rightful role of flying our Red Ensign.
We consider it highly disrespectful and insulting to Her Majesty that she should have to review these vessels named after herself, and her forebears, when they are flying a foreign flag; a flag of convenience, also associated, rightly or wrongly with United Kingdom tax evasion.
With respect it would seem that urgency would be the order of the day, so that our Monarch is not placed in a position of indignity which we think the current situation may place Her Majesty in.
Yours sincerely




Ivan Cloherty
Discharge A Number R611450
Telephone 01803 211350
Email ivanjcloherty@hotmail.co.uk

[Tony Morcom]

Another excellent letter Ivan. (Its much more fun than sandpapering isn't it) Exactly the right tone and good emphasis on disrespect with an almost casual mention of tax evasion like a crafty left hook.Well done mate.

[j.sabourn]

Re. the excuse as per weddings on board. What a load of crap. They must think they were talking to a lot of morons.they must obviously think our collective I.Q. as zilch. Never heard such a load of Baloney. Regards John Sabourn.

[Denis O'Shea]

The whole point of flagging out, FOC, is tax evasion.
I pay tax on my miserable pension, but Carnival Corporation, CUNARD, making millions out of Britain will pay Nowt.

Are we really surprised at this latest insult to the Red Duster, Cunard are making a big deal out of bringing the 3 Queens to river mersey for their umpteenth annirversary this is purely a publicity gimmick, I would not even allow them to cone here because they were one of the first to skin out of Liverpool.

[Tony Morcom]

[QUOTE=osheadenis;71342]Are we really surprisedhereQUOTE]


Well said that man.If you don't want to be British the stay the hell away!

[j.sabourn]

Ref. the Red Ensign. During probably my first 10 years at sea there was nobody more proud of the Ensign than myself, as I am sure many others were. It showed who we were, as seafarers and our roots. Over the years I have been been sadly disallusioned with the decline of standards throughout the shipping industry. Gone are the days of vessels being fined for entering port no flag flying, or a courtesy flag being displayed. Old standards have gone. In its place we have this so called modernization, which is just another name for burocrats and a lot of unneccesary paperwork under the guise of Safety. What you are getting is a load of mushrooms frightened to do anything unless the paperwork is correct. Big fancy manuals on Safety which would take about 3 months to digest, which absolves other people from any blame I suppose.This will cause and is no doubt stopping people from making their own and probably better decisions. There is probably no seafarer on this web who would have need of such literature, as most seafarers have always been aware of possible hazards, and could probably write a much more accurate manual. As regards politicians, I have absolutely no respect whatsoever as to letting the Industry down. The only respect I have is for the Crown, which most pollies would like to see go, but the people wouldnt. Regards John Sabourn

[Tony Morcom]

Ref. the Red Ensign., which most pollies would like to see go, but the people wouldnt. Regards John Sabourn

I agree with what you say John. To me the Red Ensign was as fundamental as a sextant and my binoculars. It served me very well for 8 years and I am as proud of that flag today as when I first stepped aboard a ship.Its heritage and the ships it has flown on are all part of Britain's rich history.It represents our industry that we were always so proud of.

Sadly the majority of politicians through the ages have proven to be liars, cheats or only in it to get what they can. Very few can be said to have genuinely served the people.As for the Crown, I have every respect for the Queen simply because she is. The only other royals I have any respect for are William and Harry. Like their mother they are their own people and have already proven that the new generation is a whole new ball game.

[Captain Kong]

Here is a photo of the new registry of Queen Elizabeth Hamilton Bermuda.

[Captain Kong]

This is the latest from Cunard re Flagging out.............
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-- After 171 years of registering its ships in the United Kingdom, Cunard Line announced today that it is re-flagging its entire fleet -- Queen Mary 2, Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth -- in Bermuda. Starting at the end of this month, Hamilton' (instead of ‘Southampton') will be emblazoned across the stern of each ship.

While there are various reasons for changing the fleet's registry, today's press statement highlighted only the positive -- the fact that Cunard will now be able to offer weddings at sea, fulfilling pent-up demand for couples to tie the knot at a captain-officiated ceremony in the middle of the Atlantic.

Ships flagged in the U.K. are not allowed to offer this service: Under U.K. law, couples can be married on a ship but only when it's in port and only by a minister or other notary. Cunard is at a competitive disadvantage in the lucrative romance market; its sister lines, P&O Cruises and Princess Cruises, as well as the ships of rival Celebrity Cruises are flagged in Bermuda or Malta, allowing them to offer wedding ceremonies at sea.

However, economic reasons most likely also played a part in Cunard's move. Britain's new Equality Act 2010 means that workers from EU countries employed on British-registered ships must be paid wages equal to those of British citizens. While many lines favour Filipino and Indian crew, Cunard employs a lot of dining room waiters and bartenders from Eastern Europe and its increased wage bill no doubt played a part in this decision.

Cunard's three Queens will still use Southampton as their home base, and because they're being registered in Bermuda, a British Overseas Territory, they'll still fly the Red Ensign. The ‘Weddings at Sea' programme will kick in after the ships have completed their world cruises early in 2012 and will go on sale this December.

[Ray McCerery]

Why are you so upset?, the flag has been a FoC since the tonnage tax maybe earlier. The majority of the crews on the Queen vessels are mostly Filipino and other developing nations.


Ray