The man who killed the MN

[Tony Wilding]

GSNC HAD CONTAINERS IN THE 50,s about 20 feet long.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Des,

I would say that the title of this thread is a little misplaced.

The container concept goes back before the days of the trucker McLean and the 'Ideal X' ?? The American Navy were containerizing commodities in the 30s.
There were several locking mechanisms available around the time of KT's as there were rivals to the TEU. An old employer of mine who backed McLean financially wanted 10 meter containers to be universally accepted.

Let us be frank, the general cargo ships we sailed in pre 1970 were inefficient and if it weren’t containers there would have been a host of cargo handling methods, which were being produced to improved cargo handling efficiency.

Ten-ton gear, yo-yos, topping lift on bits all good nostalgia but alas, not progress.



Brgds

Bill

Alas Bill what you say is true, also the Cross Channel ferries in the 1920's/30's already had standard boxes which they lifted from the rail wagons onto deck of ship and onto rail wagons on the other side, you will see them on many an old photograph. Like so many things we invented it, others used it first, seems we didn't believe in a lot of our inventions or did not believe they were commercially viable.

From a personal point of view, I'm glad they didn't at that time see that the idea would work deep sea, otherwise what would we have to remenisce about

[Capt Bill Davies]

I remember coming into Singapore in January 1960 on a Blue Funnel Sam Boat, we passed a ship with a couple of containers on deck. The Captain said to the Pilot,"What kind of ship is that?"
The Pilot answered, "That Captain, is the future. "
The Captain said "Rubbish".
Blue Funnel and the associated companies had hundreds of ships, a Decade later they had none.

And to think Brian, that Blue Funnel were still producing conventional cargo ships as late as 1967 in the guise of the 'Priam' class.

Brgds

Bill

[Captain Kong]

That is quite right Bill, they still could not see the Light.
Cheers
Brian

[Chris Allman]

Feeling very philosophical tonight. Some inventions or discoveries have been wonderful, like drugs that save lives and treat serious diseases and machines that do likewise, like artificial hearts and breathing machines. Things like the digital watch, television and the biggest of all the computer.

Most whilst being labour saving and therefore money saving, put people out of work and ultimately do away with the likes of conventional means such as cargo ships as we knew them and ultimately, entire fleets and their workforces. This in turn does away with related industries, ship building and all the related industries to that. This snowballs and all kinds of industries are caught up. There are new inventions every day which invade our lives and which reduce or dispel the requirements for humans to operate them or in some way help with their production.

This is all very good for business. BUT there must come a time when unemployment completely overcomes employment. Then there will not be enough people working, earning money and spending, to keep businesses going. The escalator of doom carries on moving, more people made redundant, less money in the system to require or need manufacture.

All that would now remain would be the food industries, but with everyone on the dole where is the money coming from to pay the dole, as taxpayers as we know them will hardly exist and certainly there wont be enough of them to supply the money required to pay everyones benefits, pensions etc. So where do we go from there.

We are nearly at this crucial point were collapse must be immenent, Greece is there, Italy very close, who knows, who else is in the queue.

Employment as we knew it in shipping, shipbuilding, coal mining, car production etc will never return, so what is the future and where is the future for our children and our grandchildren, I dont know, what do you all think?, where do we go from here ?

Chris.

[Tony Morcom]

Had containers not been invented one still wonders whether or not the British M.N. would have survived anyway. In these days of excessive health and safety and rules being made for the sake of it, I personally feel that we would have been doomed anyway. The shipowners and crews would all be so tied up in red tape that nothing would ever move anywhere.Can you honestly envisage a 20,000 tonne general cargo ship arriving from South America, loaded in the way they were in the 60's and 70's, being unloaded with the same speed that they were then? By today's standards it was chaos. H&S would be stopping discharge every hour on the hour. Sadly progress, whilst increasing efficiency and safety, was inevitable. It wasn't the containers that were wrong it was the behind the scenes handling of this progress by the powers to be (at that time) Once again the government failed us as so many times before and since and, no doubt, to come.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi All.
I know that our time was nigh be it with the container or some other method of cargo carrying, I was just making the point that it was his energy and push that sounded the death knell. And despite any arguments to the contrary the seventies was the turning point for us, and we would probably all agree that it was our golden era.
Cheers Des

[alf corbyn]

the two cars waited at the lights. when they changed the conventional car pulled away, the other car, a rover gave off a black cloud of smoke and left the other one standing. birmingham the 1950's; the car a rover gas turbine.£50,000 was required for further development. the government refused. the gas turbine ende up in the usa. as did the hovercraft and sundry other british inventions. if the container had been english it would still have ended up in the usa. the only things we keep are illegal immigrants. alf

[Capt Bill Davies]

Feeling very philosophical tonight.

Employment as we knew it in shipping, shipbuilding, coal mining, car production etc will never return, so what is the future and where is the future for our children and our grandchildren, I dont know, what do you all think?, where do we go from here ?

Chris.

Well Chris,

Read your post last night but did not share your philosophical leaning at the time (too late for indepth response).

Employment 'as we knew it in shipping'

There is the problem. Our time has past and many of us on this site recall the days in shipping which ceased in the 60s/70s. We all have fond memories and, in the main enjoyed our experiences. We were all very much of the same mould irrespective of department. However, we are all aware that the men, the lifestyle and the ships have gone forever and I would ask you would you really want your children to go away to sea now. I wouldn’t.

What I see entering the profession (I can only speak for the deck side) I do not recognize as people I am familiar with. Many have not chosen the sea as their first choice, vocational as we did but, purely as a means of employment. That reasoning never worked in our profession.

Brgds

Bill

[Captain Kong]

I never viewed Seafaring as a Job, I just loved Seafaring as my way of life.