The man who killed the MN

[Capt Bill Davies]

To bring the thread a little closer to home as it were, it was recorded at the 2010 Council meeting of the Nautical Institute one of the council, an Indian Captain, went on about the falling standards of Nautical Lecturers in our colleges and made particular reference to certain colleges where 'Sparkies' and similar are employed to Lecture on various topics where they had no practical experience of the subject they were Lecturing. The speech did not receive too much approval as it was considered a 'hot potato' and those in senior positions felt a little uneasy as though the knew what was going on but did not want it going into the public domain. The reason for this 'unease' became evident when it was found that this practice is not happening only in the sub continent but here in the UK where the same thing is happening.

[Frank Appleford]

On looking back, there are a lot of things that caused the end of the British merchant navy as we knew it. But even so it was it was the best years of our lives. Pier head jump anyone?

[Captain Gordon Whittaker]

What do you say to an "Honours" degree graduate?
"BIG MAC AND FRIES PLEASE".

[EIFION]

It was not a man that killed the merchant navy but a woman called Margret Thatcher.

[Ivan Cloherty]

It was not a man that killed the merchant navy but a woman called Margret Thatcher.

Unfortunately the writing was on the wall long before Maggie came to power, so in all fairness we cannot lay that one at her door

The demise of our MN was the inability of our shipowners to read the evolution of the industry correctly, there is no way that we could have survived at all had we kept the ships that we all romance about, the world was changing too quicklly and goods had to be moved in vaster quantities more expeditiously to feed a growing world population at prices that they could reasonably afford.

Thus it has ever been - sail replaced the oar - steam replaced the sail - diesels replaced the steam, whilst all these evolutions were taking place the products they were installed in were made bigger to use the power that became available to provide economies of scale.

Without evolution we wouldn't have a website to air our comments, as doubt we'd all be exchanging letters to air our views - progress can be disappointing at times, alas we have to live with it or not survive.

[Capt Bill Davies]

It was not a man that killed the merchant navy but a woman called Margret Thatcher.

Eifion,

I would concur with Ivan on this one. I would add also that the Unions did nothing to help and indeed assisted in the demise.

As for Margaret Thatcher? I would prefer her any day than the bunch of 'turkeys' presently running the government.

Brgds

Bill

[EIFION]

The MN depended on coal cargoes along with manufactured products for the outward leg of their voyages.Take these away for no reason other than ideology the industry did not have the time to respond like it did in other transitions ie sail to steam , coal fired to oil, reciprocating steam engines to turbines and IC .Dominoes to steel hatches
She made a lot of noise about the German economic miracle at the time but the facts were vastly different ...the germans subsidised their coal mines to the hilt , they still do. they subsidised the building of modern ships , they gave their Unions far more power than ours dreamed of.She subsidised road transport to the hilt destroying costal shipping. She took away all the infastructure. Maggie's dream was to destroy our manufacturing base and replace it with the financial sector and today we pay the price.
It is the British Merchant Navy that has disapeared not Merchant shipping, in fact more goods are carried by sea now than in the past well until this recession anyway.

[Ivan Cloherty]

It is the British Merchant Navy that has disapeared not Merchant shipping, in fact more goods are carried by sea now than in the past well until this recession anyway.

Regardless of who was in power, the British Merchant Navy was going to go into decline, after WWII as each country gained its independence from it's former rulers, be they British, French, Portuguese, Spain etc they all wanted to carry their own exports in their own ships as well as import goods in their own ships, it was the only way to finance their independence and obtain the requisite foreign exchange for international trade. Had they not formed their own Merchant Navies then their reserves of foreign exchange would have soon disappeared and they would have been bankrupt.

To add to our woes the USA had a huge surplus of shipping at the end of WWII, Liberties, Victories, T2s Etc, they then also had a surplus of men from the Navy, Marines also numerous Naval Academies available to retrain these men to MN ethics and practices, they then became more or less self sufficient in their requirements of goods to be transported in and out, the Jones Act and other USA Acts soon took our traditional trade into their hands. Again adding to our MN decline their coastal trade had to be carried in USA built ships and manned by US personnel, this is still true today. THe USA had modern shipbuilding yards and techniques so had no further requirement for ships built in Europe including UK.

After WWII it was imperative to rebuild German Shipyards (and Japanese also) as soon as possible, these yards were equipped with modern machinery financed by the USA and UK (under a Labour Govt) to persuade them that being allied to the West was better than being allied to the Soviet Block. The restrictive practices in our own shipyards not prevelant in Germany and Japan added to the decline of our shipyards extending delivery times which were twice as long as our competitors.

Alas we know their are many who would like to lay the result of this new world order, or disorder, especially disorder in our case, at the feet of one woman, but all this change of world order was well under way before Maggie went into politics, but it is convenient to have a whipping horse and because she was a strong minded person she is the natural target for those who cannot see the failings of the people who were supposed to represent them, their Unions, most still cannot see that there are no poor union leaders, only poor members who give their contributions to give these Union Fat Cats two cars, two houses , gold plated pensions and who never suffer in a strike the way their members do.........just an observation.

When you lose prominence in World order, all your assets shrink, it was not anyones fault we lost our prominence in most things, it was someone elses turn to be the prime factor and thus it has ever been through time immermorial

[happy daze john in oz]

The other factor was the emergance of other nations such as China and india. They had mass produced goods they wanted to sell to the world. Large quantitiues whch made the products very cheap, selling to the masses. Without the revolution of the container many of the goods we enjoy today woudl not be available in the amount they are, or at the lower price.

[Captain Kong]

It was the Unions who killed off Camel Lairds Ship Builders in Birkenhead.
An American Ship owner wanted 14 Fruit carriers built. On the first one the joiners were drilling into the steel frames to screw in the wooden battens,n The metal workers unions objected and said that should be a metal workers job, No said the Joiners Union it is our job. All out on strike. said both Unions. A couple of months went by , the Ship owner cancelled all 14 ship orders. All the men out of work. thank you Unions who kept their well paid jobs. Ship building was destroyed in Birkenhead.