tax dodging

[Jim Brady]

Cappy you don't obviously understand neither, the kid is trying to finish his final year off as an apprenticeship in joinery so it is joinery he should be doing not cutting down trees and stripping wallpaper and painting.Lucky as a young person he sees it for what it is not like you and Ivan who would have kids back up the chimney's.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[j.sabourn]

A lot of the discussion on here sounds like things haven't changed in certain trades re- apprenticeships. Re the so called apprenticeships in our early sea going days were nothing more than cheap labour to most shipowners, all the twaddle about coming up the hard way through the hawse pipe is twaddle. At least coming up that way you earned a near living wage. An apprenticeship to a shipowner of the old school was cheap labour with no monetary output. Things nowadays may be different but they certainly weren't in my day. The average shipowner liked at least 4 apprentices on a ship and he had a controllable work force. Small wages, made up the manning scale cheaper, and on completion told you to eff off and come back with a certificate if you wanted to be considered for a job. Those that think going to sea as an apprentice gave one an advantage should think again, it was more a disadvantage if anything, if out the forecastle would of at least had more time to study, which was your choice, you did or you didn't, you either made the effort or you didn't, everyone had the same opportunities. Most apps of my era were self taught, and some like myself even had to educate ourselves in basic subjects as not having the better schooling. The same by reading some of these accounts apply ashore today, the world, at least those that have unemployment offices are the ideal of the world in general, and attract every bum and stiff in a 15000 mile radius for what they consider their right. You only have rights when you work for them. Those rights are supplied by people who put the money there for those unfortuanate and unable to work, I see plenty around who are capable of working although they cant start at the top as managing director as some think it their right. JS PS It seems to me that one of the basic facts if there is work being taken by Aliens at a cheaper rate, then that is a fault of the unions, if that was to happen here laws are in place that there is no cheap labour as such and any worker must be paid the Australian rate, I believe this stops or slows down business people opting for cheaper foreign labour. There again there are those who don't agree with Unions, I do and think they have a big part in controlling labour practices and mispractices. Cheers JS

[Jim Brady]

John you are spot on in that post re how cadets were treated,it was wrong then as it is as wrong today and that is the point that I was trying to make,those day's should be gone forever.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[cappy]

at last a voice of common sense and reason.......apprentices have always been and always will be cheap labour ....but no one promises you a job ......lets all live in the real world instead of bloody utopia....regards cappy

[cappy]

Cappy you don't obviously understand neither, the kid is trying to finish his final year off as an apprenticeship in joinery so it is joinery he should be doing not cutting down trees and stripping wallpaper and painting.Lucky as a young person he sees it for what it is not like you and Ivan who would have kids back up the chimney's.
Regards.
Jim.B.

###jim you do me a great diservice........i employed many youths male and female...and wished no one up a chimney ....some made the grade some didnt .....after your recent quote i think on this matter i will cease talking on this subject to you.....but still say go and create a job jim

[gray_marian]

#66, We did this too John, that's what parents are for. Also subsidized the odd night out, he was always focused on the bigger picture, being self employed.

[Ivan Cloherty]

I thought you would have some negative comment to make Ivan a foregone conclusion.
Regards.
jim.B.

Jim, alas the only negativity in my statement is what you want to see. The world has changed, it is inevitable, some of us have learned to live with that fact. We all want a better life for our children and grandchildren and worked hard to give them that step up, sometimes someone takes the ladder away so an alternative path has to be followed. Alas I have found if someone disagrees with your point of view then they are not as worldly wise as you are and are open to insults for their lack of apparent understanding of the modern world. So be it, I've better things to do, bon voyage

[Red Lead Ted]

Jim, alas the only negativity in my statement is what you want to see. The world has changed, it is inevitable, some of us have learned to live with that fact. We all want a better life for our children and grandchildren and worked hard to give them that step up, sometimes someone takes the ladder away so an alternative path has to be followed. Alas I have found if someone disagrees with your point of view then they are not as worldly wise as you are and are open to insults for their lack of apparent understanding of the modern world. So be it, I've better things to do, bon voyage

Ivan, That is the whole point.....{ THE WORLD HAS CHANGED } And government attitude whatever flavour have to change with it, Its not our kids and grandkids fault there is no M.N. OR Armed forces, Or other less menial work for them to take up, We also didn't have to compete with millions of migrants from Eastern Europe. So instead of all the austerity and taking these lets say kids who aren't the brightest button the box dole away from them lets have a bit more understanding and compassion from government. And for heaven sake get a grip of the real causes of unemployment, The changing world isn't going to create work for these youngsters because has been said there arent the manufacturing we had 40 50 years ago, Textiles, Tate @Lyle, Car manufacturers, British Rail, English Electric, British Gas, Council yards that employed 1000s in parks and gardens, Painters, Plasterers, Roofers, ETC....ETC... But again I say don't sanction our youth to the scrapheap its not there fault, Give them a hand up don't condemn them because of failure and lack of foresight by consecutive governments over the last 40-50 years, And all the Dick Turpin bankers out there that haven't helped the situation. If any of the 4 parties want electing don't try and please me and you, We have had our day as you say we have other things to do please the future workforce our youth not by words but by actions. Regards Terry.

[Jim Brady]

Terry just heard a cracker on Radio Merseyside phone in.A guy rang up his grandson was taken on as a "Apprentice Security Guard" his training consisted of being shown the hut he was to sit in during his shift and told to ring the police if he seen anything suspicious.That was his full one hour training he was then left on his own in his hut.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Terry I AM aware that the world has changed, and I understand that, but what I do not understand is castigating your fellow crew members because they have a perhaps a slight difference in the cause and effect and are not able to offer a cure. If one feels so strongly about something then do something about it, put yourself forward for election on the local council and make your voice heard by the public where it may, or may not get listened to. Apprenticeships are as much about discipline, attitude towards superiors, work ethics etc. etc. as they are about learning a specific trade whether you be at the start, middle or end of an apprenticeship, and perhaps it may be demeaning to do something that you consider may be beneath your perceived role in life, but that's life and a well trodden path.

'You/your/yourself' is a generalisation and not addressed to any specific individual