tax dodging

[John Arton]

Jim B
Re; Cabinet Makers
My pal from the tiny village I grew up in started his career as a cabinet maker. I went to sea at the same time and was on £35 p/m, he was on far less. For his first year he did hardly anything except make endess amounts of mortice and tenon joints pus all the other wood working joints, hand saw and pane smooth endless lengths of timber and make strong cups of tea for his boss, a curmudgeonly old bugger who's greatest pleasure in life was assisting in embalming's at the funeral director's located adjacent to the workshop. Al those joints and cuts of wood etc. were invariably thrown on the scrap heap to be burnt in the workshop stove. It was only when my pal had proven to the old guy that he could cut joints, saw and plane wood accurately, all done by hand and eye measurements alone was he allowed to move on and actually get his hands involved in manufacturing anything. The old guys stock in trade was fine oak or mahogany coffins, along with sash windows, Jacobean reproduction windows and fine pieces of furniture.
The od guy died just as my pa finished his apprenticeship and as his son did want anything to do with the cabinet making business, he already had a successful decorators business along with shops, my pa got the goodwill for nothing but had to find his own premises. He found a disused cow shed and barn nearby and rented it for peanuts. His father gave him a loan to buy some basic machinery, bench planer, circular saw table etc. and off he started. I helped him clean the place out and set up the workshop and when on leave woud always work with him making bank doors, windows, church pews etc.
His big break came when a professional dog breeder came into the work shop one day and asked him if he could build her kennels. He said no problem but were they not commercially available. She said no so we built her a run of kennels with whelping box, storage room and kennel runs. It was knocked up in softwood and pinned and screwed together in sections and my pal made a handsome profit on it. This set him thinking and he consulted a number of local breeders as to what made the best kennel for professional breeders, spent a couple of hundred on drawing up a range of buildings to suit different size of dog breeders and placed adverts in two dog breeders magazines. Within 6 months he was getting so many orders that he had to employ an apprentice solely to make these kennels. After a year this grew to two apprentices and he was exporting to Africa, the Far East, and his biggest market was the U.S.A.
This business allowed his cabinet making to flourish and expand and he had contracts to fit out a local arts centre that was being built in a converted brewery, with furniture, fire doors etc.
I always worked with him on leave mainly delivering kennels on the the back of a 5 ton commer flat bed up and down the country. From that business he built a successful house building business building either one off designer homes or small estates of executive houses. By the time I had saved up enough money to buy my first car, £40 Austin A40, he was already onto his first new Range Rover.
All that from an apprenticeship as a cabinet maker, which is a recognised guild trade in its own right.
So Jim, although you lad may be learning his trade as a joiner he may get the opportunity to go onto greater things so good luck to him. As an aside I have noticed adverts recently for skilled joiners to work on outfitting luxury yachts so maybe he may get a taste of the sea in a round about way.
rgds
JA

[Jim Brady]

balls is going to produce 80000 apprenticeships .......only business can create jobs unless he is going to fill the town halls and social services with dead end jobs ....its absolute cuckoo land

Can't resist this did you see Dave giving his speech today,not 80.000 apprenticeships like Ed but Dave is going to produce three million apprenticeships.If 80.000 is cuckoo land what does that make three million,then again whatever Dave says he will be believed.END OF.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[cappy]

Can't resist this did you see Dave giving his speech today,not 80.000 apprenticeships like Ed but Dave is going to produce three million apprenticeships.If 80.000 is cuckoo land what does that make three million,then again whatever Dave says he will be believed.END OF.
Regards.
Jim.B.

hi jim yes i saw that i also saw ballses window cleaner .....who although balls ses he gets a reciept for all thing s ......hasnt had a reciept. ........but jim i think the political statements are better left alone now while they ....do there punch and judy .......i dont want punch and judy ........you dont want punch and judy but if we have to have one i bags the sausages.....regards cappy

[Red Lead Ted]

Cappy you obviously didn't read the speci,the apprenticeship is for 12 months and then your up the road and then they get another kid who they will get government funding for.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Jim, This is the North South divide for you, These lads down South don't know how our kids are being treated up North, Apprenticeships are suppose to be a 5 year contract between employee and employer, At the end of the employee putting up with a low wage to climb the ladder and become a tradesman, And go on to work and earn a wage preferably with the employer he has just served his 5 years apprenticeship with, Another few 100.000 have left school and want apprenticeships, So after being funded by the government for 5 years they let the lads go and bring in another influx of school leavers, So the merry go round spins on and on, Remember us serving our time at sea 7 years to go from deck boy to Able Seaman, And earn a wage for as long as you wanted it...................Here is the big difference in our day we were all connected to unions who looked after your job, You earned the right to protest and be represented in the workplace, Unfortunately these lads have no representation in the workplace so the employer tosses them aside no longer required. Then you have the scenario of 1000s of lads served an apprenticeship or trained to a certain standard with no jobs to fill. And if they don't take up work that doesn't exist within 6 months there is the option of brushing the streets for the pittance the dole pays I believe £90 a fortnight. They get sanctioned and the pittance taken away from them Know there will be guys on here who will contradict this post and say what's wrong with them going self employed like my son did, The truth is a lot of them want to but on £6 an hour minimum wage you try and buy a van, tax and insure it, Buy you tools, Advertise your trade, Without a hand up instead of handout's, Backing of banks E T C ... To get a business of the ground or daddy has no silver spoon to hand you these kids are on a hiding to nothing. Ain't that a kick in the ribs..........So why try in the first instance. Terry.

[happy daze john in oz]

But in todays world what is an apprenticeship? For some employers having worked at the Golden arches is one as it shows that prospective employees have learned about discipline. Many of the old trades now no longer exist and many new industries do not need them. I agree we have to find work for the younger generations coming through but it has to be work in the modern era.

[John Pruden]

having 2 of my sons time served tradesmen for the first 3 years of their apprenticeship it was myself that subsidised their wages and supplying tools for them they where earning minimum wages so if traveling was involved we covered that as well it costs a fortune to see your kids get on in life then after getting city and guilds most are sacked because employers wont pay a good wage to them ? no wonder the young do not like doing an apprentice to make life better the times their mates are going out of a weekend they are skint?? jp

[Jim Brady]

I said I wasn't going to say anymore on this matter but I feel that I have been banging my head against a brick wall.I am talking about a new job title such as "Apprenticeship In Retail" this entails the boy or girl being funded by the government to go and work in Poundland and the like for 12 months,after the 12 months are up they are up the road and another apprentice takes over.so if Dave creats 3 million apprentices Poundland,Londi and the like will be down by the head with shop assistants.An apprenticeship is what the likes of Camel Laird the ship repair and shipbuilder are doing.They take on boys/girls and train them in all aspects of ship repair it is a proper apprenticeship over many years and they will come out of there as a fully skilled welder or whatever.This new title apprentice is a scam not only in cheap labour but labour for nothing by the employer.There are a few on here that think it's a good thing for a young person to gain experience but my grandson at an early age could see that it was a scam and after working for one employer for around three months he went to the office and told him to "lick em and stick em" they're. my words but you get the message.He had done two years of his apprenticeship class room,bench work and out on site.You then need to find and employer to do your final 12 months in that work (plus I think it's one day release at college).He started with this outfit that owned properties and they did the maintenance on same,yes you are just the lad we need to do our joinery.First week he was at this big house which had ivy and trees growing over the back wall.Cut all that down son and dig all the roots of it up out of the garden,having done that lump it down that back entry into the skip,I think he filled about 4 skips.Next house get to work on stripping all the wall paper off the walls and having done that get to work undercoating and glossing the paintwork.So the likes of that and various other things and brushing up that was all to help him on his way to being a joiner.As I say he went to the office packed in went back to college where he learnt multi tasking which is what many employers want now.The college had a house that they were doing up so he got to tile a bathroom himself,learn to plaster small areas and a bit of brickwork and came out of it with a good CV. As I say many missed the point that I was making over "apprenticeships".
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Ivan Cloherty]

I said I wasn't going to say anymore on this matter but I feel that I have been banging my head against a brick wall. As I say many missed the point that I was making over "apprenticeships".
Regards.
Jim.B.

Rather a condescending statement Jim, I don't think any missed your point, they just got fed up in going around in circles

[Jim Brady]

I thought you would have some negative comment to make Ivan a foregone conclusion.
Regards.
jim.B.

[cappy]

Rather a condescending statement Jim, I don't think any missed your point, they just got fed up in going around in circles

####jim i wont talk about political figures......but will only say again.....nobody owes anyone a living ....if people dont want to take whats on offer what is the alternative.........answer nothing zilch .......wont you with all your knowledge give someone a job ....instead of asking others to give someone a job......there is a shortage of jobs ...fact .......the old trades have gone can you suggest a job for someone.....can you make a job for someone .....answer no ....so why expect someone else to ......if i have a businees with 10 employees ......why do i need 11 employees.......do i take 10 per cent off each of the others to give the new one a job ....there is a shortage of jobs worldwide even china is slowing down ..........why because there are to many people in the world..........all thinking a job is a right ......back to the beginning ......no one owes you a living.....or a job of any sort....regards cappy

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I thought you would have some negative comment to make Ivan a foregone conclusion.
Regards.
jim.B.

jim stop banging your head against the wall ........give someone a job....cappy