Female radio officers at sea mid 70's on tankers before sex disc Act

[Lucy Knight]

FM Lucy Knight
I am researching and writing a book re my experiences at sea working for Shell tankers from Summer 74 and then CP Ships as a ER/O. I was employed before the sexual disc act end 75 and at sea before that Act came in. I am interested in hearing from others who were at sea before the Act who suffered discrimination and witnessed it.

[John Arton]

Lucy
Hi, were you on the Mexican coast on the Walker or Steele?
Sure I sailed with you or at least crossed paths at some time.
I can never recall any instance of sexual discrimination on board any C.P. ship I sailed on with female officers of any department. Even on the Empress ships with large numbers of Purserettes etc. I cannot recall any sexual harassment by the male crew but there was the odd case of sexual harassment by females on males when very occasionally one would get fixated on a male crew member .
As to a "glass ceiling" preventing female officers from rising up the promotion ladder, most of the female junior officers I sailed with did not consider the sea as a life-long career either seeing it as a stepping stone to a shore job, or as a way of seeing the world for a short period before leaving to get married and raise children. Both of these are admirable ideals but as for sexual discrimination I never saw any of that, indeed all females I sailed with were not only treated as equals and were particularly welcomed on board as they brought a breath of fresh air into the mess room with their different views and outlook on life in general.
I sailed with female deck and engine room cadets and junior officers as well as ETO's.
rgds
JA

[Lucy Knight]

FM Lucy Knight
I was on the Fort Steele 78, my first ship with C.P. as ER/O after I had left Shell Tankers.

[John Arton]

FM Lucy Knight
I was on the Fort Steele 78, my first ship with C.P. as ER/O after I had left Shell Tankers.

Lucy
Ahhh the Fort Steele, brings back some memories.
I had joined the R.A. Emerson in Oct 74 in Tenerife and we ended up in Wallsend Dry Dock doing the guarantee docking. I got sent to join the Fort Steele in the yard in Rotterdam as third Mate. Hired a car to go home to the Lake District for the night to see my family but never got there as somewhere around Raby Hall ended up in a field after the car did two back flips and a twist with summersaults after attempting to take a bend too fast. The hire outfit sent a cab out to pick me up and would only return me to Newcastle. Had a bit of a scare trying to locate all my luggage from the car as well as my brand new, just issued, 2nd Mates ticket.
Spent a night in a airport hotel in Newcastle before joining the "Steele" much battered the next day.
I spent nigh on months on that ship, getting promoted to 2nd Mate after one month. We went to some great places and had some great times in port, even for a tanker.
If I remember correctly the trip went something like
Rotterdam {Van de Geisen ship yard}, Klaipeda and Ventspils to load for Portland Maine
Rotterdam to discharge this cargo as it was off spec
Load Rotterdam for Oslo
Discharge Oslo
Load Immingham
Cannot remember that discharge
Load Isle of Grain
Discharge Beira
Load Lourenco Marques and Durban
Discharge Kingsnorth {same grade of fuel oil as previous trip}
Then Thames Haven load
Portland Maine, discharge
Maracaibo Lake to load
Puerto Rico discharge
St. Croix load
Wilmington, discharge
Then some blanks but ended up paying off in July 75 in Cape Verde Islands on their independence days from Portugal, taking about 5 days to get home via Lisbon {where the army was on the streets}
After a short leave C.P. asked me to re-join her but when they said I was to re-join in Greenland I turned her down which was a mistake as she ended up on the west coast of USA and then on charter running around Indonesia.
I joined a forest product ship and after a great trip from Europe to the U.S. Gulf, S. America and S. Africa ended up stuck up the Shat Al Arab where the ship ended up staying for 2 years under arrest for off spec rice cargo.
Later on I was Mate on her when she was carrying veg. oils, a nightmare and even later on when I was Port Captain, when she was Greek manned by Seachem, an even bigger nightmare.
I definitely recall your name but cannot remember sailing with you. Were you the ex. ETO who ended up in the personnel dept. in Trafalgar or Finsbury Square with C.P.?
If so maybe you were the one I used to distract when visiting the office in order that I could get a peek at the confidential personnel files or even swop names/rank on that big magnetic board where all the ships and crews names were recorded. One guys name actually fell off that board and behind a filing cabinet underneath it. He had only done one trip and then gone on leave. After around 6 months leave he eventually phoned the office wanting to know his next assignment only to be told he did not work for C.P.! As they had been paying him for the previous 6 months this seemed strange to him and it took some persuasion on his behalf before they actually realised that he did work for them and the reason behind his long leave.
A great outfit to work for with some real characters. Would still be there if they were still going but when everything folded up the only job the offered me was on the Canmar ships with little chance of promotion and as I already had a job with Seachem took that.
rgds
JA

[Lucy Knight]

Lucy Knight
I was not the ex ETO who ended up in the personnel dept. Actually I was a highly paid ER/O who was basically forced into resigning because of harassment on my last ship the E W Beatty. We were at anchor for 5 months and I suffered continually harassment and discrimination. The personnel dept acted despicably towards me. Alec Ward my supt even gave me his home address and telephone number for references and told me not to use personnel. I had completed the around 5 months and had terrible stomach pains. I joined the Beatty in Norfolk Virginia and when she became turn no I there was a coal strike and she was on 24 hours standby. The atmosphere was terrible. I had completed over a years seatime on supertankers around 6 months on each and could cope but many couldn't . It got so bad the boss man Mr Gamey from Canada and Fleet Manager came out. People were trying to thump each other. Some had joined after me and left doing no seatime. Except for my fist trip with CP Ships I always did longer eg almost 6 months on Sinclair extended twice and when I said no for a further ext I think that was what got me in their bad books. Tankers were supposed to be 3 1/2 months. They were supposed to pay extra if you were more than a month over. I never saw anything extra. Must have been on mugs list. Going over from States to France I was in terrible pain and could hardly eat. The Capt refused to let me see doctor in France. I was due off anyway. Finally I broke company rules and phoned London office from ship without telling the Capt. I saw the doctor accompanied by 2/Os Ron Smith's wife who spoke fluent French. He diagnosed appendicitis. I paid off on a bank holiday so couldn't go in office to see doctor. My G.P. wasn't sure but said there was unusual stomach activity. Before I left the purser said I'm, leaving the med report on side by the photocopier. I wasn't well and didn't find out till 2 yrs after I had a shore job invited up to office for interview by Alec Ward just before ticket need revalidating that they had known nothing about the medical report. Seems as if they thought iI was pulling a fast one. At no time did I ever see a work report to comment on or sign. Just what were personnel playing at. However Just the time I was resign ning Alec told me they were taking on a trainee R/O fresh from college who was about to start their 6 months junior time. A lot cheaper than me as I had joined company with my MEC which I had used leave fm Hemistrochus and gone off pay with mortgage to complete the 6 months and had to pay my own fees. ER/Os were paid a lot more than R/Os. As long as they had a few females to fill the quota that was all that mattered to personnel. They never wanted to communicate with me about the matter and then a new company doctor failed me when I hadn't been pushed into resigning. I got no compensation either. I haven't anything to thank C.P. Ships for especially their personnel dept.

What is also bad is how they bad mouthed me a gossiped. A few months after I left I was at a nightclub the Sailing school (GX) after my nearly 13 hours shift after television close down and I bumped in a ch off who was with a box boat crew who were meeting up in Plymouth who was on E W Beatty. He commented how I didn't look any different to when I was on the ship with him at the beginning of my trip. Personnel had told him I was a nervous wreck these days. Spin on a couple of yrs later and a repeat of that so they were still spreading malice even though they hadn't seen them. I wish I had gone to the union and taken action against their harassment.

The sexual discrimination I suffered was terrible. I had worked for Shell since mid 74 and the sex disc act didn't come in latter part 75. When I joined CP there was a female purser and 2 nav cadets.I think I was in a position to know whether disc was going on and it was in a big way. What a cover up re personnel and the office.

[robpage]

, i am sure some of us can tell of experiences like yours , some ships attracted a bad atmosphere due often to one or two individuals on board who were complete " misfits " , I could list one or two , my thoughts are bad trip bad ship , unfortunately some ships with complete problem causing persons never improved, the atmosphere spread like a fire on gas oil , failure to provide relief on time , at the next port or the ones after was common , all too common , ships masters with a difficult had on were common too . I see there what a lot of us regardless of gender went through

[Captain Kong]

When I was in ESSO, all the ladies were treated with respect and friendliness.
Apart from a lot of wives on board we also had lady Deck Cadets and Third and Second Mates.
Oddly enough a Lady Third Mate married a Male Second Mate, she stayed at sea while he stayed home to look after the home.
I am surprised that no one looked after or stood up to anyone abusing any lady on any ship.
Glad I didnt sail on those ships you sailed on, You should have joined a Proper Company like ESSO..
Cheers
Brian.

[j.sabourn]

While commiserating with Lucy"s misfortune with sailing with obviously the wrong people and the wrong Owners, I can see where she is coming from. She should have been in a position where she should of at least kept herself away from any spiteful and malicious gossip. However saying that it was not only a females perogative to be abused, most of us probably were at some time or another have had similar problems and could not fall back on any laws that came out after 1975. I was at a very young age being bullied on one ship and was pushed that far I planned to kill the bully. Went down aft with a piece of 4 by 4 at 2 in the morning when knew he was turned in and was going to smash his head in, I was seriously going to do this regardless of any consequences. The 12 to 4 farmer saw me going aft and sat and talked me out of it on the hatch. I never had any trouble again from this particular individual in fact he always used to give me a wide berth. I personally dont agree with women on a working cargo ship as was always worried with any accidents to such and knew they were vulnerable to certain types of people. Apart from the actual physical work load that was put on seamen in some jobs, I would never have thought a woman would of had the physical body strength to do a lot of them. For instance just been discussing the building and erecting of feeders and shifting boards, I find it hard to think of a woman involved in such work. However saying that there were jobs on a ship where women were not involved in this type of labour, so were quite capable of. Lucy must also realize as I have often emphasised, was not always a bed of roses going to sea, and the older type of seaman always considered the shipowner not his best friend. The union is mentioned here and suppose you are referring to NUMAST which while could and would probably publish your complaints, had no real teeth for getting compensation for you. When I retired I was owing a pension from one company which never received, they made the rules to suit themselves, the average British Shipowner was the worlds worse employer as far as I am concerned. If you do write a book it should prove very interesting reading. Best Regards John S/

[John Arton]

Lucy
I can only apologise for your treatment. Ron Gamey was a hatchet man brought in to get rid of us all.
The ship in question was my first ship as mate and I had my new wife with me on that ship for a 6 month trip (saving up to buy our first house). We had the best trip ever with a great bunch of guys despite having two not very popular masters.
Again I can only apologise but as said elsewhere , there is invariably one bad apple in the basket on most ships, unfortunatley you seemed to have a whole basket of bad apples.
rgds
JA

[Lucy Knight]

E. W Beatty

After Mr Ron Gamey Montreal or Bermuda office and Capt Ken Edwards fleet manager CP Ships London had paid a visit and I had been on board over 4 months, Mr Gamey wanted to pay me off. The Geordie Capt who was giving me daily hell wouldn't agree. He obviously enjoyed the game. Admittedly the ship was turn no one as we had been when the coal strike began and out at anchor a fair way out from the port of Norfolk Virginia. Whether that would have been a good move to pay off the ER/O and have none on board to save money, i'll leave you to judge. The daily hell now increased with more than one senior officer joining in and down to cadet level.

It might have been more sensible to have wanted to pay off the ones that were trying to thump each other. (That was going on). The Capt had caught on senior eng and one of his outside the bar door in the Act.

Despite the fact were were way out at anchor Mr Gamey he set me a task impossible to achieve unless someone had given me some motorised This was when we were all summoned to the bar/lounge area and sitting on rows of seats infront of God of CP Ships. I was set the task to buy a computer for the ship which would also have needed a monitor. We were way out at anchor and even if I had managed to obtain a pair of motorised Jesus boots I don't know how I would have transported it to the ship. What about London sending one out or arranging with the agent.

Then they sent me two pieces of equipment out to install. Fair enough one might think. One was a 2182 Rx which would pick up the two tone warble and set off an alarm. The other was another wx fax. We had one that worked perfectly well on the bridge. Now the real fun and games started.

In order for the mains to reach it and the feeder cable to reach the bulkhead, I needed to take down the deck head panels. The Capt was giving me hell saying 'I stood by this ships being built and it breaks my heart to see you taking it to bits like a loop tape. I might have put it down to Geordie sense of humour but he was being serious. It was solid earache in my ear as I totally ignored him and took down the deck head panel. The alternative would to have had cables training. Not very good 'ealth and Safety. Even better I might have tripped up a deck officer and saved CP some money if they had had to be paid off. With being distracted solidly down came a large wedge of asbestos all over my head and face and disintergrated showering my face and body like a snow storm. Didi anyone care a damn. No of course not, this was CP Ships who attitude to me was 'take you in chew you up and spit you out again'.

That was mild compared to this next. The very pleasand 2/e who I had sailed with as 4/e or 3/e on the Port Quebec in 79 liased with me re cutting a hole in the bulkhead and welding a pipe to feet the aerial feeder thru to connect with the aerial I had installed on the Monkey Island.

So having defied them and installed there two pieces of equipment I get summoned to a senior officers cabin and bawled and bawled at re the 2/eng helping me. I took the 3 yr MRRT course and completed another 6 months later at Plymouth Poly taking the MED/MEC at my own expense hence why I was employed and paid a lot more than a standard R/O and CP hadn't had to pay for it. I did and that was with a mortgage and the fees. He told me he had also bollocked the 2/e over his part in it. Sorry Dave if got you into trouble too for helping me. You didn't deserve it. While we covered sweating joints for aerial inst wk with a blow torch, I didn't have experience using welding gear.

Around 73 when I was in 2nd yr at Brunel I was friendly with a guy on a estate management course who had just enrolled on welding evening classes. He asked the instructor if I could join but sadly he wouldn't have a woman. I managed one go on a 3 hour session on a lathe before I went to sea in 73 but it wasn't easy to get in for evening classis in these sort of areas. Touch tying yes and I was glad I did. It came in very useful in radio room. I was actually patronisingly told by Mr Masson in Shell in charge of R/Os when I asked to work my notice after the Amoria. After he said since you have yr MEC I will put you on a L boat and you wont like that I will keep you on a long time (I had already been on a supertanker M boat, the Mangelia for 6 1/2 months slow steaming not going alongside once anyway with Shell. When that didn't work he suggested that 'Why can't you get yourself a nice little secretarial job' speaking to me in a voice I wouldn't speak to a three yr old in. This was late 78 almost 3 yrs before the sex disc act came in.

Apparently according to one newspaper article I read recently Shell's first woman to work for Shell Tankers was just after the sex disc act and she was taken on in 78. Yes nice of this woman who started four yrs after I was employed beg 74 not only to airbrush me out of Shell. She also went on about how she would swear. Please don't think I did. I was sworn at a lot and it was a lot harder to act as if they had just said something pleasant than swear back. After I had been pushed out of CP Ships and I think that was because they took on women on less pay she told me there was no sex disc in CP ships she was taken on a 3/O . . She then married another navigator. The woman later didn't experience the same because people like myself had gone before and they had cut their teeth on ones like me.

Then the cadet and other when the capt laid on a launch got me a T shirt to wear saying 'No anything anytime' When I ignored their request the Capt had a go at me for not joining in their fun. I had never agreed or was paid to be their bit on the side. I understand now one of the woman in personnel looking after the capts ch engs would wear a T Shirt in the office K**** S******* gives you the ships. There was also another woman looking after deck officers up to ch off level. I understand she may have taken over looking after capts and ch engs fm the other. CP Personnel really failed in informing their senior officers downwards about sex discrimination. I joined my first CP ship in Iran when big trouble had just brewed up a curfew was about to begin with no handover and found the main tx not working. I had never sailed with that type before. One of the 3 phase wires was broken. Very strange how that could have happened. My cabin had been plastered with porn all over the walls and a porn calendar. The calendar it turned out belonged to the Captain. That was plain stupid in a country when the porn would normally have been locked in the bond. Say no more . Those in personnel had a lot to answer for in CP Ships and it disgusts me that some of them were woman.

The same cadet got logged. I don't understand what was going on when I woke up to strange noises at my door in the middle of the night. I was just going to get up to investigate, when I heard the capt yell out ' what are you doing', then two voices I heard saying 'Bricking up her cabin'. The next morning I had awful trouble getting out of my cabin. The had somehow obtained wallpaper with a small brick patter on it and secured it with masses of masking tape. Too bad if there had been a fire or emergency. The capt then was trying to put words into my mouth that I had had something to do with it. Maybe this was what Mr Gamey's visit was about but why pay me off. Apparently the Capt was getting very concerned about the ship.
Then I was made to join in some purile sports day. Notice the purser Sid Bradley the Capt, ch eng or Ch off didn't take part and had to do the sack race , potato and spoon race and relay race up and down the deck one afternoon. THIS WAS C.P. SHIPS IDEA OF MAN MANAGEMENT. 0/10
They say they lead from the front. So what on earth did those woman in personnel think they were playing at. I joined them in 78 so there had been 3 yrs to get used to the Act. Those two woman had never been to sea. They should have been educating the men they were responsible for not covering up for them. How unprofessional to demean other women like me at sea. I won't add some of the rest I heard about one of them re their friendliness with a senior officer who went far. Personnel certainly sold me down the road. Alec Ward the electronics supt told me NOT to go to personnel for a reference and gave me his home phone number and address for that purpose so even though he had a very good management job he obviously couldn't do anything about CP Ship's personnel depts. behaviour . Having women in personnel dept didn't mean the men under them had to behave disgracefully towards me. Frankly I am disgusted by them. I had a large mortgage when I was pushed out with nothing and not even able to get a reference from personnel. I had never seen one of my work reports and the women in charge of Captains was letting them get away with this. They should have been signed by me and I should have been allowed to comment on them. I sometimes wonder if they did get signed but it wasn't by me.