Female radio officers at sea mid 70's on tankers before sex disc Act

[cappy]

theres an old saying about the mn ....if you cant take a joke dont join.......i think at some time most folk at sea had a hard time ......but put it down to experience....and came out better for it.....regards cappy

[Captain Kong]

Thanks for that Lucy, So glad I never sailed with CP apart from the old Empress Liners, Scotland and France in the 50s.
CP sounds as if it was full of poofs, whimps and idiots.
Pity you didnt sail with a good company, like ESSO, everyone enjoyed their time there including lady Officers and the wives. They were all treated as Ladies with respect and everyone behaved like Gentlemen.
If I was there Lucy, I would have defended you to the death.
Cheers
Brian.

[John Arton]

Brian/Lucy
The company Lucy describes is nothing like the company I spent 22 years in. Whilst in no way attempting to discredit Lucy's account of her terrible times their and agreeing with some of her comments regarding some members of the Personnel Department {did any company have great personnel departments?}, I have to reiterate I never saw or experienced anyone suffering bullying or sexual discrimination.
As I said in a previous post the E.W. Beatty was about the happiest ship I ever sailed on and we did have wives on board but no female officers.
The Captains Lucy alludes to I have an inkling as to who they are and quite frankly most of the guys I sailed with would not cross the street to pizz on them if they saw them on fire, myself including.
Both myself and my wife were treated very fairly by C.P. and I can relate a number of instances where C.P. pulled out all the stops to assist its employers and families in times of family crisis etc.
Again, Lucy, I am not disparaging your account of your time with C.P. and can again only offer my heartfelt apologies for all the distress that you suffered in your time with C.P., which as I said before certainly bore no resemblance to that company I spent 22 years in, those 22 years giving me the best years of my seagoing career. From the late 70's when the Canadian bosses started exerting their influence more and more over the running of the Company things did start to change and the rapid expansion of the company from the mid 70's onwards did result in an influx of sea going personnel from other outfits attracted by the high wages C.P. were offering {ranked about 2nd highest in the U.K. fleet just behind Shell/Esso}of which a number of them were of quite questionable character {Brian, not poofters, more ignorant gits}
rgds
JA

[Lucy Knight]

Re if y ou can't take a joke don't join.

I think I took jokes at my expense very well. On my first trip with Shell I crossed the line and went through the going over the line ceremony which didn't phase me one bit. Unlike other on my course at college I did a lot of survival swimming Gold level Lifesaving, sub aqua, sailing etc. Being dunked in a swimming pool didn't bother me.

I joined CP Ships and on my first ship which was crossing the line and had no swimming pool they asked for my going over the line certificate. Did the men carry one?

I locked myself in the radio room and one eng tried to get thru the hatch . I repelled him. He was pissed out of his brain and trying to break down the radio room door. The frame was bending and you could imagine the trouble i would have had if I hadn't been able to lock the door in port so I relented under duress.

The B******s unknown to me had been leaving out meat based left overs inthe sun for a week so they were nicely putrid and well and the chamber pot of sausages and ginger beer which didn't do my eyes any good. I had really long hair and was a bit worried they would have this off. (On the Sinclair when it was my birthday the next trip they decided to bump me 24 times and one was standing on chunk of it and lost the chunk.)So no swimming pool but never mind the ship had fire hoses. U nfortunately the lads and I think they missed their vocations as second cooks also mixed up flour water and the deck was covered with all this goo. The chamber pot contents was tipped over my head which then started to affect my eyes . I kept slipping over and it is no exageration to say i had bruises down either side some 5" by 4". Everyone was slipping over by this time and fire hoses snaking. One senior officer when he got to next port found he had a fracture in his arm from slipping over and told me quite firmly, 'There will be no more going over the line ceromonies' as if I had been behind it. Mixed with alcohol it ended up a scrum on the deck including me involved in equivalent of rugby tackles. In case you think i was built like a female rugby team centre forward, i was just over 5 foot, very slim with long dark hair.

The Filipino crew apparently were furious over the way I was being roughly treated and made a complaint to the capt I was told.

When it was time to go on watch I could hardly see and the purser had to put in anaesthetic eye drops so I could do my watch. Did i complain . No.

The senior cadet on watch asked me for some nail varnish remover. He had played Neptune. Why? I asked. He wanted to remove the emerald green felt tip pen he had used as eye shadow and couldn't get off. I was too soft with them . Instead of giving it to him and he definitely would have needed anaesthetic eye drops in his eyes, I told him i would try make up remover on them after i had finished my watch. I gently removed it. Never mind getting my own back
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This was my first trip with CP Ships and I would like to know if personnel were aware or behind this happening. If they were, bearing in mind there was a woman looking after deck up to ch off level and one looking after Capt and Chiefs, I would question whether they were actually jealous that female officer was at sea amongst the men they were responsible for.

I took jokes pretty well, but they went far to far.

Before I went to sea , I was for three yrs the only woman in a class of men. The college where I took the first yr I was the first woman they had had and on my own. I transferred to Bristol for the second and thirds yrs , the third yr I was a Shell cadet. Brunel had only just allowed woman that year and another woman who was on the shorter course 2yr and a term which ran parallel had also transferred but we were inseperate groups.
In my last year i realise now one lecturer was trying to put me through the paces a bit of having them all laughing at me. He would try his best to get me laughing and then make comments re a part of my anatomy which wobbled and the whole class would join in laughing.!!!

Prior to starting the radio course after an A level course, I spent the Summer working on the Isle Of Wight in one of five establishments which the comedy series Hi Di Hi was based on. I don't think I would have survived there if I hadn't had a sense humour. I was sure Hi di Hi had to be based on one of theirs the first time I saw it and it turned out it was.

[cappy]

well i think we have the gist of it now lucy......regards cappy

[robpage]

I think the bullying in any form was unacceptable , but have seen it applied top other people , often the slightest build or the nice people who did not fight back , I know of one deck cadet who had a kipper taped under his bunk drawer , by an idiot who did it whilst drunk , I was drunk is no excuse under any circumstances , it is a crying shame that you had not been on ships like the UCL passenger fleet , or Sealink Ferries , where you would have had the safety in numbers . There I saw almost no bullying at all , clan cargo ships , and Gulf Oil tankers , there was definite prejudices and bullies were found .I am 6'1" or was and played prop forward ,maybe that helped

[j.sabourn]

Rob, the incident I quote is 60 years ago and can still remember, however this bullying as people recall was not only at sea but can remember incidents as a child at school, there are some people who get their kicks by bullying others they think are inferior. However when the worm turns see how quick they back down when they think thay are going to receive some of their own treatment. We considered it part of growing up, but obviously it has lasting bad effects on some people. At sea in most of our days we all found our own level, and bullys mostly were unacceptable. However this title was not only there for the average Joe Bloggs but sometimes went to the top ranks of some ships, which I myself have met in my life spent at sea. The incident of my walking off in Japan, at the time were 3 europeans on board, The master myself and the male Radio Officer. Both the R/O and the master were Irish of the opposite sides of the Christian faith. I have actually seen this master standing outside the R/Os cabin stamping his feet uop and down to annoy him when he was turned in. It was real bitterness on both sides, I have also seen this in our so called Christian faith on other ships with Irishmen of different parts of the spectrum. JS

[robpage]

Whilst noting Lucy's comments refer to sexual discrimination , I sailed with a Scottish Chief Engineer who seriously believed Catholic babies should be culled , and made the life of any Catholic in the engineering department miserable , he was not keen on Rugby players or English people either . I thought this bigot was joking because of his extreme views but sadly he wasn't . When sailing with wives on board I have stated. They were often the cause of their own downfall , but when not were treated in a most ladylike manner , the same with female officers and ratings . My thoughts were discrimination , bullying , prejudice , was not gender limited , but found wherever total creeps in senior positions were allowed to roam free. As a very junior officer the fight was not easy , as an engineer , you could take revenge of sort , closing the flap on the cool air supply , large steel ball bearings in the deck head vent trunking that rolled all day and night . Blocked waste pipes from the cabin sink making them a really slow runner , there was always a leveller . But to a slightly built non engineer probably not so easy to execute . The childish pay backs certainly helped you retain sanity

[j.sabourn]

Moral of that story Rob, is, keep on the right side of the Cook. Cheers JS

[cappy]

Moral of that story Rob, is, keep on the right side of the Cook. Cheers JS

######nnaver disagree with what theb old man says john .....the cook could always be sorted ......he had to give decently cooked food or to many people were on his case ......the nasty goings on happened in the pantry before the food came through the serving hatch to the saloon steward......decent guys always got a good plate of meat and good cuts etc ......but the favourite iether for mates or gingerbeers was ......he has asked for white meat off the chicken......every body in the pantry seemed to love that one .....white meat was shown to the chicken and if we had a black steward in the pantry he showed his black meat to the chicken.....the other one was ......in a loud voice breast for the captains lady or the chiefs lady etc ......but only this was done to the prats that lucy was telling about .....the absolute pits which happily were few and far between ........ps dont ask what went in the burgoo.....if there was a prat in the saloon .........but then they say what the eye doesnt see ....the heart doesnt grieve.....oh happy days....regards cappy