NE Agreement.

[len mazza]

Hi,An old shipmate has just told me that he was on the MV. Speciality on N. east Agreement Articles,about 1963ish.What intrigues me is that he says that they were allowed only 12OT per month,was that in the articles or just a tight shipowner?.When did the 40hr week come into effect,for the life of me I can't remember the rules so long ago,things were changing for weekend work,but I can't remember the details,can anyone help??.

Len MazzaR621945.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Hi,An old shipmate has just told me that he was on the MV. Speciality on N. east Agreement Articles,about 1963ish.What intrigues me is that he says that they were allowed only 12OT per month,was that in the articles or just a tight shipowner?.When did the 40hr week come into effect,for the life of me I can't remember the rules so long ago,things were changing for weekend work,but I can't remember the details,can anyone help??.

Len MazzaR621945.

Hi Len

You don't say what capacity your friend sailed in.

I was 2nd Mate on Speciality in 58 if he was on deck it would not be possible to get just 12 hours OT per week, never mind per month. Deck hands worked 5 on and 5 on at sea, which gave them 4 hours a day on weekdays, 8 hours on Saturdays and 12 hours on Sundays, in addition to that on the days not fully at sea you had docking and undocking duties, preparing hatches etc, the work was hard but the overtime was good. I was mate on another coaster and the overtime was the biggest bill in our running.

I was later superintendent for 22 coastal and medi trader ships in the late 60's and early 70's and the overtime was virtually impossible to cut, because of the nature of the trade and watches and port shipboard jobs.

If your friend was in catering, then yes his overtime would be minimal, not because of the shipowner, but because of the nature of his duties. Even as a cook/steward he would "probably" accumulate more than 12 hours per week never mind per month, especially if at sea on Saturday afternoons or on Sundays.

Most owners didn't want their ships in port over weekends lying idle with no cargo worked, so didn't mind paying the crew overtime for watches etc as the ship was gainfully employed, even when sailing in ballast, at least she was on passage to pick up a paying cargo

It made no difference to catering staff, as they worked days only and not watches, but got o/t on sat/sun and every night in their bed, so yes their o/t would not be high,

But as always I stand to be corrected

Regards

Ivan

[Jim Brady]

Ivan,you mention the catering dept.I never sailed in any company that did not pay a least three hours a day.that was basic anywhere.In 1962 I'm sure we got 12 hrs O/T for the weekend,also the 3 a day,but I dont think we were getting it in 1964.Did it come in and go out?
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ivan,you mention the catering dept.I never sailed in any company that did not pay a least three hours a day.that was basic anywhere.In 1962 I'm sure we got 12 hrs O/T for the weekend,also the 3 a day,but I dont think we were getting it in 1964.Did it come in and go out?
Regards.
Jim.B.

Hi Jim

Cannot recall any changes from the '64 era, as you can imagine with 22 ships on weekly wages we had an awful lot of Portage Bills to check in the office by the accounts dept, which we as Supt's had also to keep an eye on for anything unusual, making sure the cook/stewards were not getting 25 hours a day overtime (only joking).

All the coasting companies I sailed with before coming ashore didn't object to paying overtime as long as they could see something for it. As mate I paid an awful lot of overtime, but always had a spick and span ship and the lads always gave their best on the "job and finish" system I used. The lads imposed their own rules, no breaks for a ciggy or cup of tea, meant that any slackers were chivvied by their mates to "get on with it" meant more time in the bar! suited us all. Even C/S used to get involved with Galley and accommodation and sometimes on deck.

I think most of us liked to sail on clean looking ships, somehow made you feel better, mind you I sailed on a couple of deep sea ships3/m and 2/m where you had to sneak down the dock and then rush up the gangway in case anybody saw you, you were that ashamed to be sailing on the bloody thing. Crews only stayed one voyage as there was no overtime. But if you didn't sail on the bad you wouldn't appreciate the good.

Ivan

[len mazza]

Hi Ivan,My mate was 2nd trip C/B.I had four coasters while at sea and I think that the OT.was the same as
deep sea,at least 2hrs a day,the change to a 40hr week came in toward the end of my time,1967,at least I think so.By your reply I take it that being on NE.Articles wouldn't make any difference to how the OT hours
were calculated,thank you both for your replies,

Len.

[Jim Brady]

Hi Ivan,sounds like you ran a very happy ship.I would say what contributed to a very happy ship was plenty of overtime,you did'nt see many delegations upto the Chief Steward and the Captain over the food when there were plenty of ovies tobe had.No overtime,no money but plenty of idle hands brooding and fed up with being away from home.The food that would've been o.k.had there been plenty of overtime was now only fit for the gash bucket and the men were now unhappy and further trouble would blow up.
I have here a pay off slip from 1962 I was away 4 mths 19 days.My overtime and Sundays at sea total £147.00.I paid off with a total of £121.00.Had I just relied on my wages I would've paid off "In The Red" after all that time away from home.That is why the overtime was so important.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Hi Ivan,sounds like you ran a very happy ship.I would say what contributed to a very happy ship was plenty of overtime,you did'nt see many delegations upto the Chief Steward and the Captain over the food when there were plenty of ovies tobe had.No overtime,no money but plenty of idle hands brooding and fed up with being away from home.The food that would've been o.k.had there been plenty of overtime was now only fit for the gash bucket and the men were now unhappy and further trouble would blow up.
I have here a pay off slip from 1962 I was away 4 mths 19 days.My overtime and Sundays at sea total £147.00.I paid off with a total of £121.00.Had I just relied on my wages I would've paid off "In The Red" after all that time away from home.That is why the overtime was so important.
Regards.
Jim.B.

I was fortunate enough to have a good bosun and a good set of lads, anyone shirked they sorted them out. But as on any ship had to use the threat of a logging now and again, but on the whole I was fortunate with my shipmates and had some good teachers in the masters and mates I sailed with and when I was mate the Skipper always fought my corner when my paint requisitions went in.

Early in my career I had sailed on some crappy ships and with some crappy mates and masters and was determined not to emnulate them. later on I sailed with Mates and Masters who I would have followed anywhere and they taught me by their example. and thats true of any walk in life, but I reckon more so at sea, where you are marooned on a little steel island.

Rgds Ivan

[happy daze john in oz]

Overtime for catering crew varied depending on the number of bloods on board and the second sterward. As officers steward with UCL we got 4 hours every day plus Sundays etc. The reason being the officres stewardc in charge convinced the second steward, with the help of the cheif officer, that we were on stand by at all times should the officers need our servicers.

[Neil Morton]

As "tiger" on the Ports New Plymouth and Nelson my o/t was great as I had to stand by entering and leaving port, be on hand for the skipper entertaining shoreside VIPs, and of course if we carried "bloods" I was barman. Without that the 25 quid a month,( I think that was the rate of pay 1962/3) would have been spent on getting ones jollies en route.

[len mazza]

Hi ,Thank you foe getting us back on course Jan.One thing I remember being told was that ships on the NE.A' had an outboard moter for the dingy,anybody verify that!.I joined the Poole Channel,in Goole on H.T.
Articles,for the three month that I was there we never loaded south of Sunderland,I was the youngest
aboard by a good fifteen years,was the pet 'Southener' according to the crowd.It was also were I learned
to scull,spent a good few nights tied up out in the Weir.Sure that the OT was same as other ships,don't
know where my mate got the 12hrs.per month from.

Len.