On this day - 17th September 1940

[MikeK]

Dear Brian,

Ref: CORB

The list issued by the Children’s Overseas Reception Board (CORB) and published in newspapers such as the South Wales Argus on 23 Sep 1940 as kindly put on the web by www.newportsdead.shaunmcguire.co.uk/benares.htm
shows eighty three (83) Children (CORS), one (1) Doctor, one (1) Nurse and six (6) Escorts

Below are six (6) Children and two (2) Escorts who were on this list but in fact survived:-

Capel, Derek Alfred (m), age 12, British, CORS – www.newportsdead.co.uk NOT MENTIONED by Convoyweb or CWGC but wartimememories states him as a survivor and www.ahoy.com has a photo of Ken ??? a survivor from No. 12 lifeboat rescued by HMS Anthony on 25 Sep 1940 – 8 days after the sinking – and landed at Greenock on 26 Sep 1940
Claytor, Howard Francis, age 11, CORS – 17 Sep 1940 – www.newportsdead.co.uk NOT MENTIONED by Convoyweb, CWGC or wartimememories and I have to assume is the 6th boy from No. 12 lifeboat rescued by HMS Anthony on 25 Sep 1940 – 8 days after the sinking – and landed at Greenock on 26 Sep 1940
Cornish Mary A.C., (f), Miss, age 23, Music Teacher, British, CORS Escort – 17 Sep 1940 – www.newportsdead.co.uk NOT MENTIONED by Convoyweb or CWGC but wartimememories shows her as a survivor from No. 12 lifeboat rescued by HMS Anthony on 25 Sep 1940 – 8 days after the sinking – and landed at Greenock on 26 Sep 1940
Shearing, Paul (m), age 12, British, CORS – 17 Sep 1940 – www.newportsdead.co.uk NOT MENTIONED by Convoyweb or CWGC but wartimememories states he was a survivor from No. 12 lifeboat rescued by HMS Anthony on 25 Sep 1940 – 8 days after the sinking – and landed at Greenock on 26 Sep 1940
Short, William Cunningham (m), age 9, British, CORS – 17 Sep 1940 – www.newportsdead.co.uk NOT MENTIONED by Convoyweb or CWGC but wartimemories mentions a Billy Short as a survivor and I think this is the same person
Sparks, Kenneth John (m), age 13, British, CORS – 17 Sep 1940 – www.newportsdead.co.uk NOT MENTIONED by Convoyweb or CWGC but warmemories has a Ken Sparks as a survivor and www.ahoy.com has a photo of Ken ??? a survivor from No. 12 lifeboat rescued by HMS Anthony on 25 Sep 1940 – 8 days after the sinking – and landed at Greenock on 26 Sep 1940
Steel, Harry Broderick (m), age 11, British, CORS – 17 Sep 1940 – Blenheim Road, Eastleigh - www.newportsdead.co.uk NOT MENTIONED by convoyweb, CWGC or wartimememories – I think this is Fred Steels of Eastleigh described in www.bbc.co.uk/local/hampshire - he was in No. 12 lifeboat - Fred Steels – child, age 11 – rescued by HMS Anthony on 25 Sep 1940 – 8 days after the sinking – and landed at Greenock on 26 Sep 1940 www.wartimememories.co.uk
Sullivan, Roderic, Father, age ??, British, CORS – 17 Sep 1940 – www.newportsdead.co.uk NOT MENTIONED by Convoyweb or CWGC but wartimememories states a Father Rory O’Sullivan was a survivor from No. 12 lifeboat rescued by HMS Anthony on 25 Sep 1940 – 8 days after the sinking – and landed at Greenock on 26 Sep 1940

Does anyone know if CORB issued an updated statement on this matter.

Thanks and Kind Regards
Capt. Mike Kinnear

[MikeK]

Ref: City of Benares – The 6 Missing Children & Their 2 Escorts

Dear Brian,

I have spent a couple of days “Googling” City of Benares for supplementary information on the date she went down and found the web site www.lawnswoodhighschool.com which shows all the information on the missing people courtesy of The Yorkshire Post of 27 Sep 1940.

This site also covers Miss Armes, a former Teacher, who died on City of Benares and for those not interested in this episode but still retain a “schoolboy/girl” humour you can read all about life in the 1930’s on subjects varying from Hygiene & Sex Education to School Dinners and Crime & Punishment.

Kind Regards
Mike Kinnear – R 899964

[MikeK]

Ref: Date & Time City of Benares Torpedoed

Dear Brian

When torpedoed City of Benares was in position 56 48N 021 15W – www.miramarshipindex.org.nz – 56 43N 021 15W – www.uboat.net & Axis Submarine Success 1939-1945 by Jurgen Rohwer

Ship’s time is changed according to longitude – advancing when heading east and retarding when heading west. Modern ships use one hour increments for each 15 degrees of longitude but in days of old it was 30 minute increments for each 7 degrees and 30 minutes of longitude and I heard of some where they changed the clocks by actual minutes in order that the following day’s mid-day position by taking the altitude of the sun at its highest point occurred at precisely 1200!!! Ship’s clocks were traditionally changed on the 12 to 4 morning watch.

I think in the case of City of Benares we can assume at the time of sinking she was in fact one hour behind GMT (Z). When you read some of the survivors’ comments below you will understand why I have described this as they must have been quoting ship’s time.

I believe she was torpedoed and sank on 17th September 1940 but others will disagree. Below are sources I have checked.

Hope this is of use.

Kind Regards
Mike Kinnear – R899964

Ellermans A Wealth of Shipping by JA Taylor states 17 Sep 1940
Merchant Fleets – Ellerman Lines by Duncan Haws states 17 Sep 1940 at 2205 torpedoed and 17 Sep 1940 at 2245 sank
British Vessels Lost At Sea 1939-1945 states 17 Sep 1940
British Passenger Liners of the Five Oceans by Commander CR Vernon Gibbs RN (rtd) states 17 Sep 1940
The Battle of the Atlantic by John Costello & Terry Hughes states 17 Sep 1940 at 2200
Britain’s Sea War by John M. Young states 17 Sep 1940
The Fourth Service by John Slader states 17 Sep 1940 at 2205
The Red Duster At War by John Slader states 17 Sep 1940 at 2205
Ships in Focus - Ellerman Lines by John Clarkson & Roy Fenton states 17 Sep 1940
Beyond The Call of Duty by Brian James Crabb states 17 Sep 1940
Who will take our children?: the British evacuation program of World War II by Carlton Jackson states she was torpedoed at ten o’clock p.m.
Children of the City of Benares by David Carter states she was hit at approximately ten o’clock at night
RM Cooper, 4th Officer states 17 Sep 1940 at about 2200 GMT
Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) states 17 Sep 1940
U-Boat Fact File by Peter Sharpe states 18 Sep 1940
Axis Submarine Success 1939-1945 by Jurgen Rohwer states 18 Sep 1940 at 0001 Central European Time for the time of the beginning of the attack (Column 1) and 17 Sep 1940 GMT as the date of when the first torpedo struck (Column 9) and he explains this in the Explanation of Table and Index Formats at the beginning of the book.
www.uboat.net states she was torpedoed on 18 Sep 1940 at 0001 Central European Time (CET) which is GMT + 1 hour thus 2301 GMT on 17 Sep 1940.
Below, with thanks, is the explanation from www.uboat.net :-
Note: All times in this database are given in MEZ/CET (Mitteleuropäischer Zeit/Central European Time), respectively in MESZ/CEST (Mitteleuropäischer Sommerzeit/Central European Summer Time). Therefore the dates and times can differ from other (mostly Allied) sources, especially when ships were hit in distant areas.
www.sscityofcairo.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.miramarshipindex.org.nz states she sank on 17 Sep 1940
www.naval-history.net states 17 Sep 1940
www.ahoy.com states 18 Sep 1940 at 0001
www.convoyweb.org.uk states 17 Sep 1940 for Passengers but sadly no date for Crew
www.wikipedia.org states 18 Sep at 0001
www.shipsnostalgia.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.telegraph.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940 at 2230 quoting Bess Walder, a child survivor
www.bbc.co.uk/local/hampshire states 17 Sep 1940 at 2230 quoting Fred Steels, a child survivor
www.guardian.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940 at 2145 quoting Fred Steels, a child survivord
www.heraldscotland.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.ross-shirejournal.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.ww2today.com states at about midnight 17 Sep 1940 HMS Hurricane received a message from The Admiralty concerning the sinking, which means she had to have been sunk before that
www.londonwired.co.uk states she sank in the early hours of 18 Sep 1940
www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.ss-tregenna.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.independent.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.u.tv.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.wartimememories.co.uk states 18 Sep 1940
www.yoliverpool.com states 17 Sep 1940 shortly after 2200 she was torpedoed
www.independent.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940 just after 10 p.m.
www.anglo-celtic-connections.blogspot.com states 18 Sep 1940
www.theshiplist.com states 17 Sep 1940 at 2205
www.taipeitimes.com quoting The Guardian states 17 Sep 1940
www.cowo.culham.ac.uk states 17 Sep 1940 about 2230 quoting Bess Walder
www.militaryimages.net states shortly after 10 p.m.
www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940 at 2145
www.iancoombe.tripod.com states 17 Sep 1940 at 2205 precisely
www.homepage.ntlworld.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.battleofbritain1940.net states about 2200
www.royalnavyresearcharcive.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940 but unfortunately describes the vessel as the P&O Liner, City of Benares!!!!!
www.benjidog.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.mliberalguy.blogspot.com states 18 Sep 1940
www.newportsdead.shaunmcguire.co.uk/benares.htm states 18 Sep 1940 for Newport’s Dead
www.oldbrightonians.com states 17 Sep 1940 quoting Derek Bech, a child survivor
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.fortunecity.co.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.tweetmeme.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.bygonederbyshire.co.uk states just after 10 p.m. on 18 Sep 1940 quoting John Baker, a child survivor
www.yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.onenewspage.co.uk quoting The Guardian states 17 Sep 1940
www.morleyelderlyaction.org.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.headlinehistory.co.uk
www.blog.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk states on 17 September the convoy’s naval escort had left to accompany another convoy. Some hours later City of Benares was spotted and torpedoed by the German U 48 submarine
www.wapedia.mobi states 17 Sep 1940
www.sluniverse.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.stjudes.org.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.itv.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.histclo.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.rememberingscotlandatwar.org.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.sunderlandvlb.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.archive.theirpast-yourfuture.org.uk states 17 Sep 1940
www.scotfamtree.11.forumer.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.war-experience.org states 17 Sep 1940
www.newportpast.com states 11 Sep 1940
www.alisonandbusby.com states 17 Sep 1940
www.1940.airminded.org states 17 Sep 1940
www.hmscavalier.org.uk states 15 Sep 1940: When the ship City of Benares was sunk with over 100 children on board, HURRICANE was the first rescue ship on the scene, arriving 18 hours to pick up survivors after the Benares had sunk.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Looking at the mo at HMS Fidelity, again.

Although mentioned earlier in the post as an Ex French Merchant ship, became the second most secretive WW2 Q ship apparently, wondering what was the first? etc.

"The Rhone entered port at the Barry Docks in South Wales. Whilst here Costa handed over the Plastic, and through his negotiations was able to persuade the Royal Navy and the British Government to agree to the crew and the ship to become part of the British Navy and so HMS Fidelity was born.

HMS Fidelity was a merchant ship or freighter, but Costa had great ideas for the ship with the help of the Royal Navy, and would become a ‘Q’ship".

ANYONE KNOW MORE OF FIDELITY?

K.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Just an observation on time changes when changing zones in the comments above

The practice on" all" the ships I sailed on was each watch starting with the 8 -12 at night advanced or retarded the clocks 20 minutes per watch depending upon whether you were sailing East or West. This gave all on watches to gain or lose that extra 20 minutes of sleep, a preciuos 20 minutes if gaining it

It may have been the practice on passenger ships to advance or retard all the public places clocks one hour at midnight, but it never happened for watchkeepers as it would have been extremely unfair on the 12 -4 watchkeepers, and it made no difference whatsoever to the midday "noon" sights as the sun was very rarely at its absolute zenith at your onboard time at noon, but would always be a few minutes at its zenith before or after your shipboard time of noon

Just an observation, if you'll pardon the pun, from one who has searched in vain on many an occasion for that elusive sun in the North Atlantic and North Pacific whilst traversing up and down through 60 - 70 feet on the wing of the bridge whilst the ship performed her circus acts rolling from port to starboard in those lovely areas, never was a sea more mis named than the "Pacific"

All the best

Ivan

[Keith at Tregenna]

On This Day : 17 September 1940

Her Name Was “City of Benares”, “Tregenna”, “Crown Arun”.

ATLANTIC OCEAN: U-boat U-48 torpedoes and sinks the SS City of Benares, killing 77 British children and 248 crew en-route to Canada. The ship, part of convoy OB-213, had departed Liverpool, England, for Montreal and Quebec City, Canada, on 13 September carrying 199 passengers, 90 of which were children. The children are being transported to Canada as part of a government program. A few hours after the RN escort had withdrawn, the ship is torpedoed at 56.48N, 21.15W. The torpedo hits the ship on the port side and she sinks after a short time. Only 57 passengers, including 13 children, are rescued. Immediately after the sinking, the British government ceases the transportation of children to Canada and South Africa.

K.

[Keith at Tregenna]

On This Day : 17 September 1940

Her Name Was “City of Benares”, “Tregenna”, “Crown Arun”.

City of Benares: the Children's Ship

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-s...ity-of-benares

Child Evacuee Beryl Myatt & Sinking Of The SS City Of Benares | IWM