Costa Concordia

[happy daze john in oz]

No doubt there were many faults with both officers on bridge duty and some failing by the skipper.

But through all of this the media, as is always the case, have put their spin on it.
Most will believe what they read or hear, very few will read or understand the report on the incident so will rely on news on Fake book or similar and believe every word.

The full truth is only known by those involved, and as stated a job was done to save skin on some.
Like so many accidents at sea there is some doubt as to the truth.

[j.sabourn]

#11.. you only have to ask yourself if the drama of the disaster of the Titanic was resurrected and re- trialled under today’s thinking how much of the present apparently romantic tributes of bravery and sadness would remain in this folk tale of years gone by. Without spoiling this folk tale the first thing questioned would be the master and regardless of what people think he would be accountable and if had survived would in all probability have lost his certificate.Others too would have been held accountable. The stories you read today in all probability would be a bit different. The average persons knowledge of shipping and the way it is run is zilch to non seafarers ,and you have to be one to know one. Cheers JS

If you can say any good coming out of a disaster then the only one that I could think of was the changes made in law as to lower the rate of deaths. Think for Titanic was the lifeboats where the having sufficient boats on one side of vessel to carry all on board . Rather than the original one of having sufficient boats on board. Most seamen would have known that a ship did not sink to suit the launching of lifeboats, think also the 15 degree list rule also came into affect from this disaster. Seems there always has to be a disaster to get forward memento for any safety impetus. JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi John.
You are spot on about the safety angle that only changes after an event. Loading a ship up to the bridge windows with logs is an example, I don't know how many ships sunk from logs shifting , but the one we received an SOS from during a hurricane in the North Atlantic is one , she was only about eleven miles from us but there was no chance in the world we could even contemplate going to her assistance, she went down with all hands. we were light ship and meeting massive waves.
I don't know if they do that now with logs, but they do with containers, and look at the trouble they have in weather..
Des

[j.sabourn]

Basically Des with a log cargo which is also loaded on deck to get down to your marks , the ship is very tender to start with due to a high centre of gravity. With timber every time it rained or a sea came onboard the timber retained some of this water increasing the top weight and reducing the ships GM by raising further the centre of gravity and reducing what is called the ships righting levers from finally the ship would have negative stability and could and more often did capsize. The quickest answer for this was to jettison that top weight , and every timber carrying vessel the securing chains and lashings were supposed to be fitted with a quick release system.
Your container ship did not have this problem or shouldnt have due to the steel construction of the container ,which should of course be watertight. I would of thought the biggest problem with the stowage was that it was done mostly by landlubbers who had little knowledge of weights and stability ,and were only concerned with available space. Cheers JS

The 15 degrees I was referring to was that the means of ingress into a ships boat by means of boarding such as ladders and knotted ropes should be obtainable with a 15 degree list on the high side of the ship, especially with passengers . JS .....

[happy daze john in oz]

One major problem with containers is knowing what is in there.

The manifest may not always be truthful on that score.
Weight distribution can also be a problem as I am informed they are loaded according to ports of destination not weight.

[j.sabourn]

Most seafarers on this site were brought up under different circumstance than what exists today . The mate was the man who loaded and discharged the ship and he was held responsible . If the mate on a ship did not know his own ship , he was ballast as regards safety to the vessel. The person or persons loading these ships I fail to see them having the same intimate knowledge of every particular ship. I was on one ship where I knew from practical experience that the stability of the vessel did not match up with the ships stability particulars and with every bulk cargo was alright on paper but not in practice , and used to flop from side to side when loaded pointing to the fact she was close to having negative stability. She was foreign flag and and I got off her in Japan after 10 months .She was scrapped shortly after. Just another part of the charmed life many seafarers have. JS
Wouldnt of mattered about the 15 degree list rule there as the boats had been condemned for 2 years and were solid in their Davits. JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

John
Those Stenhouse slips are all very good in theory, on the way home on one timber carrier we got smashed, the temporary catwalk was smashed to pieces, the logs on No four hatch were hanging over the side by the chains, and the Mate wanted someone to get up there with a hammer and knock the slips off, not a hope in Hell, as whoever was doing the job could say good by to his payoff. Unless of course he was quick enough to make a rough raft on the way down.
Des

[j.sabourn]

#17 there were very few fool proof systems for carrying timber deck cargoes Des , the same with other things , but had to go through the motions to satisfy whatever statutory legislation existed , and sometimes satisfy a surveyor . The last surveyor I met at sea was on a one who boarded in Adelaide on a ship I brought in from Singapore . He was a university student and had a check list in his hand of things he had to check . Judging by his age and experience I doubt if he was even studying maritime duties. We had a 2 engineer with a northern territory
Certificate and that really stumped him, had to phone head office. JS...

[j.sabourn]

#17 .. those same clips Des 10 times bigger were called Pelican Hooks offshore and used to hang a 22 ton rig anchor on. If you want to see Safety it consists of a fast pair of legs when passing back to the rig from a rolling and heaving deck , and only hope you didnt get the crane and driver on your head as well . Safety is never foolproof. Too cautious and the job never gets done , take too big a risk and men get killed . You have to find a happy medium . Merlin the wizard would do . Cheers JS.

[happy daze john in oz]

In NZ there area couple of ports where timber is loaded, have watched the process and it looks a bit slow.
Got talking to one guy who said consideration was being given to some form of container for them rather than just on the deck.
That was a about 3 years ago but with all that has been going on for the last two I doubt much has changed