The Great British Shipbuilding Revival

[John Pruden]

gentlemen the point of my post is in the build up to building the ship its in the office do they pull a price out of the hat how many ships are built for the price quoted before a contract is signed I bet not many ?that's were the brains of the company should come in no one is saying we cant build the ships but lets get it right from the drawing board not lost before the keel is laid? jp

[Lewis McColl]

Also the Unions Prevent apprenticeships.

A friend was a Sales Manager for a stainless steel profiling company. he told me.........
They employed Two Apprentices, One day the Union man turned up and had a word with the Two, then went to the Managers Office,
He told them that as the Apprentices were working the same hours as the Skilled men they should be on the same wage. or he would call a Strike.
The Boss called the Two Apprentices into his Office and in front of the Union Man gave them their cards.,
You do not work here anymore thanks to your Union Man. close the door on your way out.
And Two Future Skilled men lost their jobs and apprenticeship.
This must happen all over the country.
Brian

Brian name the company because I'm sorry I just do not believe that happened. The hole in your statement is Skilled men and the apprentice should be on the same wage, no way would a bona fide Union man have behaved or acted like that, I think your friend has been telling you a story, sorry.

[Captain Kong]

He is a very close friend of over 75 years now from when we were kids. He does not tell me lies, we are like brothers and know each other better than anyone.
I would not embarrass him by querying it.
Bona Fide Union men are not all intelligent men, I have known many many, thick and stupid ones in my time. including Paddy McGrath of the NUS in Liverpool. until I filled him in.
Brian.

[john walker]

I would agree with your post Brian and in principal with the previous however, we do have a problem in the UK and the Unions do not help. I lost a few good positions at sea in the 70s due to the ITF and their interfering 'stormtroopers' aka RMT officials. At sea we could always identify a budding union official. He was a 'head worker' and usually found jobs like an inside guy man when topping and lowering derricks.

If you are referring to the the Rail and Maritime Union (RMT) there was no such organisation in the 70's . I had to rely on the ITF officials who were members and paid union officers of various maritime unions from the industrialised maritime powers in the years that were the demise of our own European flag states. I never came across any ' Stormtroopers ' representing the ITF.

[cappy]

jim slater the so called NUS president from shields stated to me personally when i was on 28 quid a month ....i will get the merchant seaman 200 pounds a week ...well he didnt also tell me there would be no effin ships left ......he was a man who was banned from some collier companies i am told ....but i truly believe he pushed the MN over the wall quicker than any shipping owner.....never went deep sea in his life ...he was a ships fireman ....of course that was when the unions of this country had the country by the balls......cappy wouldnt have a union man in my factory ...the people didnt want them in the 80s and 90s they could see what they had done to the textile and clothing trade....the motor trade the mines the docks the shipbuillding etc ......heard it all seen it all..... unions in the 18 to 19 hundreds yes........ now an albatross round the countries neck ..... never needed anyone to keep me on a chain..i do understand others views on this but not for me cappy

[Lewis McColl]

On N Ireland news tonight H&W have said they will tender for a share of building of the new batch of RN Frigates. Something about a price capof £250 million per ship?

[Lewis McColl]

He is a very close friend of over 75 years now from when we were kids. He does not tell me lies, we are like brothers and know each other better than anyone.
I would not embarrass him by querying it.
Bona Fide Union men are not all intelligent men, I have known many many, thick and stupid ones in my time. including Paddy McGrath of the NUS in Liverpool. until I filled him in.
Brian.

Brian the trades unions rarely called official strikes and I mean TRADES unions , not the the likes of the TGWU. Sorry I am not going to fall out with you but there is no way on this earth that a union official would or could demand the same wage scales for an apprentice as was being paid to a skilled man? When was this supposed to have taken place. As a rule of thumb an apprentice fitter, welder or electrician , plumber etc if he was employed by a decent company he would have been an endentured apprentice By being endentured he also agreed that he would not go on strike. An old employers trick used to be when you finished your apprentice ship an employer would try and put you on what was called an improvers rate for a further 6 months so this meant even then you were not on the same rate as a skilled man. Cappy says there is no needfor the Unions, rubbish, most employers prefer to deal with a Union. Nissan in Washington , Vauxhalls on merseyside Land Rover and Jaguar , Rolls Royce , Bentley , Airbus all have good working relationships with the unions. The idiots like Scargill are gone. Yes there are problems with the RMT but most of those problems are due to Management trying to ride rough shod over the labour force. Unite are another lot but do you disagree that there is not a need for Union representation for NHS staff? .It is a fact of life there were never more ruthless employers than Mill owners, ship owners and mine owners. If it were not for unions you would still have children stuck up chimneys as sweeps. If you think that employers would quite happyily pay everyone a living wage you are in cloud cuckoo land. Even now there are employers who begrudge paying the minium wage. There are more people in full time employment who are still having to receive benifits so they can get by.

[happy daze john in oz]

The shortage of skilled workers is not peculiar to just UK.
here in Oz it has been estimated we are about 35,000 skilled workers short in trades such as motor mechanic, sparkies, chefs, bakers, brickies, and dunny divers.

The problem is the kids of today are not interested in taking up a trade, much easier to sit behind a screen or become a professional student studying for degree after degree, and all for nothing.

But we still have ship building yards but with little to build apart from a few Royal Navy vessels, mainly patrol boats.

[vic mcclymont]

Lewis. The shilyard controlled the number of apprentices the yards could emoy.
In its heyday scott lithgowwere struggli g for manpower. They wantex to employ loads off apldentices. T.U.said no. Some years no apos taken on.

[John Pruden]

we have put two of our four boys through apprenterships one through his masters it cost us a fortune but well worth it all got nice houses cars and high pay plenty of work about if willing to get your hands dirty? jp