I bet you re Gld the engineers are all sober guys

[Captain Kong]

Default Re: I bet you re Gld the engineers are all sober guys



The disaster was found by the Marine Accident Investigation Branch to have been caused by the poor visibility from each ship's wheelhouse, the fact that both vessels were using the centre of the river and the lack of clear instructions to the lookout at the bow of the Bowbelle. In 1991, the skipper of the Bowbelle, Douglas Henderson, was tried for failing to keep a proper look-out but, after two juries were deadlocked, he was formally acquitted. A Coroner's inquest on 7 April 1995 found the victims had been unlawfully killed.


Following pressure from the Marchioness Action Group, whose publicity front had been handled by photographer and party attendee Ian Philpott, on 14 February 2000, John Prescott as Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions ordered a formal investigation into the circumstances of the collision, to be chaired by Lord Justice Clarke. Lord Clarke's report blamed poor lookouts on both vessels for the collision and criticised the owners and managers of both vessels for failing to instruct and monitor their crews in proper fashion.

In 2001 an inquiry by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency into the competence and behaviour of Captain Henderson concluded that he should be allowed to keep his master's certificate as he met all the service and medical fitness requirements. However, they "strongly deprecated" his conduct in drinking 5 pints of lager in the afternoon prior to the accident and for his admission that he had forged some signatures on certificates and testimonials in order to obtain his master mariner certificate of competency in 1988. Also in 2001, the Royal Humane Society made 19 bravery awards to people involved in rescues at the Marchioness sinking.

Subsequent to recommendations made in the Clarke report relating to the improvement of river safety, the Government asked the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, the Port of London Authority and the Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI) to work together to set up a dedicated Search and Rescue service for the tidal River Thames. Consequently, on 2 January 2002, the RNLI set up four lifeboat stations, at Gravesend, Tower Pier, Chiswick Pier and Teddington.

That would be 14 units of alcohol and twelve hours to clear it from the system so Captain Henderson would have been capable of driving a car legally , dependant on his personal body circumstances , so typical MCA . they just love blaming someone .

ROB.

On the 20th of this month it is the 25th anniversary of the disaster. where 51 people were killed.
I took over the Bowbell after the incident.
It was a disaster waiting to happen. The pleasure boats in the Thames above Tower Bridge just wander all over the river like butterflies. They are Party boats, they have no destination but just to keep moving anywhere during the charter time for party goers.
The situation of the Bowbell, was ,, she was high and dry at the discharge berth at Nine Elms, which is just down river from the Battersea Power Station Building.
As the incoming tide rises and she starts to float, empty, no ballast she has to get away as soon as possible to get down river past the bridges, about 11 in all. it is a rising tide, the Air Draft has to be considered to prevent a collision with the bridges. Ballasting starts as soon as possible after leaving the berth to get her height down for the bridges.
On leaving the berth call Woolwich Radio, `Bowbell leaving Nine Elms, proceeding out to sea, taking all Centre Arches.` then at each Bridge, `Bowbell taking centre arch at Westminster Bridge` , and so on all the way down to past Tower Bridge,.
This broadcast is the repeated by Woolwich Radio, `All vessels on Thames, Bowbell taking all centre arches out to sea, at Westminster Bridge`, and so on. So any vessel listening in would know just what and where the Bowbell was and doing.
BUT the Party boats have loud speakers blasting out disco music that can be heard all over the river. so the skipper of the party boats cannot hear the River Broadcasts.
I believe the radio on the Marchioness had been turned down so the skipper would not hear the Broadcasts.
The Centre arches are the highest so the Bowbell uses those, the party boats can use the side arches quite easily depending on their air draft.
Just passing under Southwark bridge the Marchioness had just gone under it when the Bowbell approached, there is a bend in the river just there so as the Marchioness was turning to port a little the Bowbell passed under the bridge and caught the port quarter of the Marchioness. This pushed her round plus the effect of the bow wave this pushed the Marchioness into a big starboard list and she came round more to port. The Starboard anchor of Bowbell caught on the roof of the upper deck thus further swinging her round the bow and then ran over her and sinking her between Southwark Bridge and Cannon Street Bridge. Killing 51 people.
On the focsle head of Bowbell at that time were two ABs, it was change over for them, Eddie told me that he saw a couple, man and girl, in white shirts, they raised their glasses and shouted `Cheers` to Eddie, and then they fell backwards and disappeared as the vessel listed over to starboard. Although the Marchioness had her navigation lights on, the only one visible to Bowbell would have been the stern light. But the vessel was all lit up as it was party time. and then had the scatter of shore lights all around to dazzle.
Concentration would have been focussed on getting under the bridge without hitting the arches.
On the Bridge was the Second Mate on the wheel and the Captain.
It took another two bridges down stream to stop the Bowbell.
She was criticised for not turning round and going back to pick up survivors, that was impossible.
Later we did tests, sailing from Nine Elms with the ship full of Judges, Lawyers, Police and MAIB. Had to order more life rafts to accommodate all these passengers, just in case. Cameras were fitted, and stop watches at the ready we sailed down river again and at Southwark Bridge, Stop Engines, full astern. all the stop watches were on, cameras switched,
The Bowbell carried on for three bridges before stopping in the water. she also hit one of the buttresses of the bridge as the prop took effect and swung her round.
There were several Inquiries but really nothing conclusive,
Every time we sailed up the Thames under the bridges to Nine Elms, people would be waiting on the bridges, hurling abuse at us, pissing on us and throwing garbage at us. None of us were on the Bowbell at the time of the disaster. but we got the abuse.
Another time I was coming in the river and at Greenwich I got a phone call, from the berth at Nine Elms, the Police were waiting to put a writ on the "mast" for £500,000, so I turned around and went out to sea and took her up to the Wash and anchored off the Sherringham Shoals, We heard on the news on BBC radio, "no one knows where the Bowbell is".
The next ship up there was the Bow Trader, she got the writ on her "mast" [pasted on her wheelhouse windows].
so the company, a subsidary of RMC, had to pay up to release the ship.
I was sailing down the Thames outward bound and taking the centre arch at Waterloo Bridge , I had made the broadcast to Woolwich Radio who also repeated it to all vessels, as I approached the arch right ahead of me coming through the centre arch was the sister ship to Marchioness, forget the name at this moment, we narrowly missed each other. I phoned Woolwich Radio and reported the incident and a Police Boat was despatched to arrest the offending vessel. They still never learn, The skippers on those fun boats only have a Boatmans Certificate just for the Thames above Tower Bridge,
When I joined the ship, I have never seen such a dismal ship, a bad atmosphere, it seemed it was the punishment ship of the company, If you misbehave you were sent to join the Bowbell.
The accommodation was tatty and scruffy, same as the crew.
I got rid of the crew and hand picked the men I wanted. A Mate ex Texaco VLCCs who had been made redundant same as I was from ESSO, then a new second Mate, he was a BEN Line Master for many years, just wanted a couple of years work to boost his pension. I had all the cabins painted with new carpets, and furniture, there were no washing machine or dryers, I got new ones in. New Fridges in the galley. In the end I had a good crowd and happy ship. and began to enjoy the job.
We would dredge in designated patches, authorised by the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries, and our Geologists, sand and stone for the construction industry. In the English Channel. North Sea and in the Baltic Sea taking the cargo to various ports in UK an Continent, France , Holland , Germany and Poland. that needed aggregates.
BUT the BOWBELL was a mess inside. Down below in the void space tween the tank and the ships side, the ship was leaking like a sieve. Down below it was like a submarine that had been hit. Water squirting everywhere. I had two bilge pumps working 24 hours a day to keep the water out, Wedges covered in rags hammered into cracks. I reported to the Office that she was going to break up. `RUBBISH` I was told.
BUT Four weeks later we laid her up in Southampton. an Irishman from Cork, a ship broker, bought her and then sold her to Madeira, she was dredging out there when she folded up in half and sank with some of her crew. sad. She should have been sold to the breakers, but they got a better price as is. and some poor Madeiran seafarers died.
I left after and got a Masters job on a tanker out of Singapore training up a Chinese crew before the handover to Hong Kong owners and Flag. That lasted for twelve months.
Cheers
Brian

[robpage]

Rarely do the press or the pressure groups , seem to seek the truth , The compensation which can never ever be enough to buy a life clouds judgements , and in this modern times pleasure and fame are ever more important than commerce and truth . I have been involved in two British Rail (Sealink ) enquiries ,and saw that the name in the frame was more important than realising the true cause .and the name in the frame was always shipboard , never the man who blue pencilled the dry dock work list . I wondered after the Herald of Free Enterprise who never had a " door costed " light fitted , he did not get his legs smacked . But if it was fitted , would it have saved the day , I have been into the Solent with visor down and doors still closing . I would see every boatman in every British Waterway better trained .

[Captain Kong]

I believe there was No compensation for the Victims of the Marchioness, All were young and single with no dependents so in British Law at that time, no compensation was paid.
.
.
. Strangely enough, just seen it, there was an advert at the top of this page advertising River party boats, with a video showing the river at night with all its dazzling lights, so you can see how it is very difficult to see navigation lights etc,

Cheers
Brian.

[robpage]

English law provides no compensation for fatal accidents unless financial dependence at the time of death can be proven. In most cases, the victims' families received little more than the cost of the funeral.Civil claims for compensation were brought on behalf of the victims’ families, the amounts received ranged between £3,000 and £190,000.This is due to the fact that many of those killed were young, single, without dependents and had no established careers

[j.sabourn]

#20... Rob there seems to be some inconsitentcy in the statement put out by What after my time was put out by the Maritime Coastguard Agency. ( I assume this is the agency which now puts out cert, of competency which resemble something which the kids might get at a Wimpeys bar) Where reference is made to the Master forging the signatures of testimonials to obtain a masters cert. What testimonials ??? the only such that I can imagine that they are referring to is watchkeeping certificates, giving out by the master to say the person has served from and to as a 1 2 or 3rd watchkeeper on his vessel. The same would be found in his Discharge Book. If he so desired could get the same from the owners of the vessel he served on. To make an issue of this appears to me to be the usual press release to imply there is something which does not exist. As regards compensation for dying or being traumatised this occurs nearly on a daily basis to seamen worldwide, their compensation in a lot of cases is zilch. I beleive to this day that when I was caught up in the biggest world wide oil disaster, that the families of those who died and most of the survivors were treated very fairly monetarial. The after effects of those suffering depression afterwards can never be compensated by money, but does go a long way for the families of those who died. Unless the master they are talking about had one of these queer ( knew I could get that word in legally) cert. 5 or something for inland waters, in which case would not of had a discharge book, and in which case I would not consider him a bona fide seaman. I put this down to freedom of the press. John S

[Captain Kong]

Hi John
Captain Douglas Henderson had a FG Masters Cert.
he was laid off by the company for a couple of years after the incident suffering from shock etc. and then brought back in as a Second Mate to ease him back into the job.
I believe and this is only what I heard unofficially, that on the ship he was on the Captain went on the bridge and caught him drinking alcohol. So he was dismissed.
Maybe he was still suffering some kind of depression. I guess being accused of causing the deaths of 51 people would have a traumatic affect, it can destroy your life. Sad that a career can end this way.
Brian

[j.sabourn]

Hi Brian, it was the statement giving that he forged the testimonials to attain his masters cert. that I really take umbrage at, as unless things have changed dramatically, one doesnt need testimonials, just seatime unstained. The press as always, always manage to put a different meaning on things and give people an undeserving doubtful character. My own example to this I put up once before where I was asked at the enquiry did I check the emergency stores on board which consisted of 300 blankets, 300 towels, 300 chairs, these were made up in parcels of 100. My reply was that I did not count them as was unnecessary as sighted them was sufficient. The Press to whom in the past I refused to give statements which they would have liked to adjust to their own convenience, then made a headline in the Aberdeen Press and Journal, " Skipper Did Not Check Ship Before he Sailed", the press is a dirty word to me, as know how easy it is for them to make an eye catching story from nothing. They are the dubious ones in my book. All the recent headlines of recent times I always take with a pinch of salt. Another example of this is the ABC the reporters and the ABC itself although receives money from the government is anti the present one, and goes out of its way to say so. I would chuck the lot out in the Street if I was PM. Cheers John S.

[robpage]

The only testimonials that it could be John are the certificates of service that prove your qualifying seatime , if so then as he had a foreign going masters , issued by the department of whatever it was called at the time is a pretty lame stick to prod the man with , I have had trouble in the past getting them signed by Chief Engineers who were far too busy , one was so busy he signed my certificate for a three cylinder steam ship instead of a five cylinder PIUP Doxford , Although I never remember him ever going into the engine room , so he my have thought it was steam .

[Captain Kong]

This may interest John Sabourn,
. I was reading a Daily Telegraph I have from February 1980, about the Court of Inquiry over the POOL FISHER sinking.
further down the page was this article about Safety boats off the Rigs in the North Sea. and the Crews who Drink a lot.
May have to zoom to read. The Skipper of the WILLA of Great Yarmouth had his Certifcate suspended for Ten Years, due to being drunk and running his ship aground.

Cheers
Brian

[j.sabourn]

Wont say too much about Safety boats Brian, just that its a wonder that the skipper found drunk had time ashore to do so, 40 odd days at sea and 2 or 3 ashore where the conditions on board were appalling at times would send a lot to drink. There is no excuse for being drunk however. The same as there was no excuse for the lousy conditions of service at that time imposed on these crews. Cheers JS

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#21... Brian were these ships run by the Greater London Inner Council ? If so I went down for an interview in 1967 for same, they were advertising MN officers now is the chance for you to work a 40 hour week, in the tabloids up North. I travelled by train to Kings Cross overnight to save on rail fare, the interview was at 1500 hrs, so spent the time walking around London till then. Arriving at the Council Offices which were manned by mostly coloured people I was finally interviewed and asked how I could afford to move to London and the higher cost of living, told them if they thought along those lines they should put the wages up. I knew by then had no chance as seeing the many applicants awaiting interview was told you got preference if were unfit for deep sea duties, the bits of crap doing the interview didnt like my manner and I didnt like theirs, so walked out after a bit of a barney. Forgot to claim the train fare so had to go back in cap in hand and ask for. They made a big issue of giving me the equivilant of a second class return from Newcastle to Kings Cross. Shortly after that diasasterous interview went down to London again to John Kilgours who were the Agency for Alcoa ships and they couldnt do enough for you. I was shortly winging my way to Halifax via Montreal and spent thereafter a few years on various foreign flagged vessels. The Greater London Inner Council I remember though as a bunch of #ankers. Cheers John S