Whoops a daisy

[John Arton]

http://p.feedblitz.com/r3.asp?l=8868...5001&c=4734011
Is this something that will come about on a bigger scale if the Scots do vote for independence? lol)
rgds
JA

[Jim Brady]

From what I read where it was fired from would normally be under water,in this case it was above.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[j.sabourn]

Shouldnt think it really matters Jim. Depending on the tests they were doing, would probably be a different test under different circumstances if firing from say an anti submarine attack submarine. Had occassion to be involved in a similar situation up Loch Fynne in the early 80"s whilst testing a stingray torpedo, fired from a RMAS vesssel, the target was a semi submerged world war 2 submarine. They lost the torpedo and the submarine as went down through insufficient floatation resources. Hell to pay as Loch Fynne was I beleive the only area in the British Isles where herring fishing was allowed at the time. This was curtailed and the Fishing Fraternity was up in arms. However that is what tests are all about, sometimes they are unsuccessful. Cheers John S.

[Ivan Cloherty]

#3 The torpedo was eventually recovered with a specially designed hydraulic cactus grab with specially designed non penetrating teeth together with hydraulic operating pack, how do I know this, I designed and supplied the grab and power pack.

[j.sabourn]

Ivan, you are referring to the first torpedo and not the Loch Fynne one I suppose, if you are referring to the Loch Fynne one is the first I knew of it. We knew exactly where it was and waited until the pinger expired (7 days). The following week a Russian sub was reported in the approaches to the Clyde estuary and we all assumed he was after it as well. We had a Jim Suit and a 2 man sub, the divers that were down had 7 foot probes and still failed to get a line round it. Was surprised at the time that it wasnt blown up, but there must have been bigger brains with other solutions. The Commander Littlejohn who was in charge of the operation, I read later he was working for the yanks in retirement as a sub warfare adviser. Cheers John S. PS Ivan bet your grab didnt pick up the bottomed submarine as well JS

[j.sabourn]

If Ivans statement is referring to the stingray, it just shows the information that can be gleaned from other people, years after the event. This is the second bit of knowledge I knew nothing about. This MN Old Friends site doesnt have to be just looking for lost relatives etc. The other piece of knowledge refers back to an unseaworthy vessel I walked away from in Japan, and was told probably as a form of revenge that she had been lost with all hands, and which I had a guilty conscience for years, as supposed I should have stayed. However someone told me on here and this was donks after the event that she went to the scrapyard. A curse on the wanker who told me she had been lost. The Stingray would have come under the Official Secrets Act at the time, but is well past the use by date. Cheers John S. PS Ivan bet your grab didnt pick up the bottomed submarine. Cheers JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

I The Stingray would have come under the Official Secrets Act at the time, but is well past the use by date. Cheers John S. PS Ivan bet your grab didnt pick up the bottomed submarine. Cheers JS

The OSA bit worried me after I'd pressed send, but what the hell, numerous people knew about it when building it and were not bound by the OSA. Could have picked up the Sub with another one John, was involved with design of underwater grabs capable of lifting 1000 tonnes, also built hydraulic grab for use in the Arctic that would remained submerged for six months in depths exceeding 1000 feet, that took some working out especially the lubrication and corrosion bit, used space technology in the end coating all the hydraulic rams with ceramics which protect from cold as well as heat. The grab operated off a drill rig, never brought to the surface as it would take too long and nowhere to put the spoil, each bite took a 180 tonnes the drillrig then moved from dig site to dump site to form a ridge around the hole, oil exploration equipment and valve chambers placed into the glory hole:- reason for digging the hole - it prevented the equipment being damaged by passing Icebergs. Was involved with some interesting projects during my 28 years with grabs and other equipment, most people think of them as just a lump of metal to discharge coal, but there is a whole different world out there, radio controlled, underwater with propellers, underwater electric grabs with all parts including motors in oil baths to cool them in hot conditions, I could bore the pants off you.

[j.sabourn]

An awful lot of technology has been provided by the oil industry, including directional drilling. When you see some council workers drilling under the road rather than pulling up the whole road you can thank the oil industry. They had and have the vast resources of brains and cash and I would say far exceed government experimental departments. I had to do a lot of positioning of rigs, well not a lot as to the finer aspects, only to laying the first anchor off a tv satellite GPS position. It must have been a real work up before the modern equiptment. I think your free fall lifeboats may have come about from the oil Industry, but am only guessing on that one. Also a lot of space technology started on the Drawing Boards of some oil company. Progress has far superceded the expected due to them. It all takes massive amounts of money, to make more money. Cheers John S PS Ivan you sound like a sub sea engineer who lives along the street from me, all he talks about are unmanned submersibles. JS

[j.sabourn]

Stingray... Looking back Ivan maybe the probable cause of not Known about the recovery, was maybe shortly after was taken off the Seaforth Clansman against my wishes and went back as Master on AHSTs back in the North Sea. If had been on vessel when recovered would have been common knowledge on board. Would have to put my thinking cap on as to when it occured, as there were quite a few occurences all the time (over 4 years) I was on vessel, some of which came under the OSA also. Cheers John S.