BAD SHIPS AND DR,s

[Jim Brady]

Joined the Eastbury all marks on the deckhead, asst.stwd on from the trip before told me they were from champagne corks from previous trips cargo.
On the Millais MR.Mate recruited me and the second cook to get rid of some cases of corned beef in Las Palmas I was galley boy.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[j.sabourn]

Probably inflated Bond prices. Cheers John Sabourn

[Lou Barron]

The bad ship i had the misfortune to be on was a German ship Michel and the Captain Helmuth von Ruckteschell for killing my best mate and afew of guys i knew well

[j.sabourn]

Loading whiskey in Glasgow all the Dockers had their tin mugs on their belts. They werent very careful on loading the cases on a block stowage as slammed down unnecessarily hard in a lot of cases, however seepage from same was fair game and out came the tin mugs.Lots of glassy stares from same as they came out of hold. Cheers John Sabourn

[Doc Vernon]

Not at Sea very long as most here know,so i was i suppose just one of the lucky ones not to have had a DR in my time at Sea!
But saw and knew many who had them,and were not happy at all,all for thier reasons of course!
Yes Logger Lloyed was indeed the Man to beat on the DR thing,and although i cannot confirm this had heard that he gave double DR'S to some as well! Was that possible at the same time!!?
Cheers

Quote by Rob Page!

I believe there was two South African Brothers both made Captain in the UCL passenger fleet

Hi Rob
Now dont know that they were Brothers but yes indeed there were two Lloys ,Logger i served under on the Winchester Castle,but the other Swivel Eye i never knew! But matye i dont dispute you!
See this transcript!

With reference to the captain on the Winchester. His name was Lloyd and he had been on the ship for a number of years. I did sail with a chief officer on the Stirling who was also named Lloyd. He was a South African and had one dodgy eye and was known as 'Swivel eye' Lloyd or 'Ushant' Lloyd.....one fixed and one flashing. He was promoted to Captain whilst I was with U-C.
I have heard of 'Logger' but am not sure which Lloyd that applied to.. The one on the Winchester was an extremely nice bloke. When we use to arrive at Madeira I always made sure I was below the starboard wing of the bridge when we were tying up to the buoy. Captain Lloyd would invariably look over the side of the bridge and shouted down to me "If you would like to go ashore Mr Emmett don't be too late in coming back." A first class gent.

On this info sounds as though both Logger and Swivel Eye were one and the same!!??

Straight from Training ship Arethusa.Capt Logger Lloyd or as he was called "Swivel eyed LLoyd"
He logged me because on rounds he found dirt on his white gloves from top of door in my area.

[robpage]

In 1963 the B & C Review shows Capt. G W Lloyd as Master Of the RMS Pendennis Castle and in 1965 He retired in 1968 and there was Capt Norman Lloyd as Master of the S A Vaal and Safmarine Commodore He had a swivel Eye . I was told that they were Brothers but have no way of actually knowing that , but as there was a 10 year age gap it was possibly conjecture . I understand now after reading the Union-Castle Staff Register that the nickname Logger was not necessarily due to discipline but was due to his elegant old English script that he wrote the daily log book in when he was Chief Officer ,

But , I have confused the two , Logger was a legend when i transferred to Southampton , and had left by that time , so I took what I was told was Urban legend about the nickname , Swivel Eye , Commodore Norman Lloyd of S A Vaal , was notorious for logging men especially if he got dirt on his white gloves during an inspection , he was followed by the Tiger with a supply of fresh gloves . My confusion . But I was convinced that they were Brothers , There are a couple of ex UCL Navigators here who may be able to remember the facts better and solve the mystery

[j.sabourn]

This would be a query more to the Bridge people going back a number of years. In the late 50"s and early 60"s it was common practice in the company I was with to keep the bridge and deck log in pencil, this was referred to probably incorrectly as the scrap log. Why in pencil never really knew as erasures were considered illegal. However from this copy the Chief Officers or fair copy was done by hilm for return to the offiice. Another time wasting and stupid waste of time. Someone then had the brilliant idea of a dual sheeted logbook where the second sheet was torn out for return to office a much more practical method. As regards the first case of the so called scrap log book, I have seen some masters log people in this hoping that the culprit was unaware that it was not the official log book ( a different thing altogether) and later erase out of as was in pencil, this was the only time I saw erasures as such. However it usually worked as the recipient of the logging usually kept his nose clean for a lengthh of time beleiving that another logging was not beneficial. I must say that the masters who did this were certainly not martinets and only wanted to run a decent ship and not have too many problems. Never saw any bad discharges from such masters and were usually well thought of. A small trick used to the benefit of all parties concerned. Cheers John Sabourn.

[Ivan Cloherty]

This would be a query more to the Bridge people going back a number of years. In the late 50"s and early 60"s it was common practice in the company I was with to keep the bridge and deck log in pencil, this was referred to probably incorrectly as the scrap log. Why in pencil never really knew as erasures were considered illegal. However from this copy the Chief Officers or fair copy was done by hilm for return to the offiice. Cheers John Sabourn.

In the Court disputes I was involved in (mostly Charterers versus Owners) the 'scrap' logbook was considered the more vital piece of evidence than the 'fair' copy, if the scrap log could not be produced it weighed heavily against the owners in any court conclusions, as did lack of a 'movement' book and engineers logbook. Not everything in the scrap log got copied into the fair copy as some info notated there-in was considered irrelevant at the time but proved important in a dispute. Some masters wanted every little detail put in, others who had probably been involved in a dispute were more circumspect and issued instructions that anything the OOW thought relevant should be written on a scrap pad rather than directly into the scrap log, once it was initialed 'okay' it went into the scrap log

I have also seen the scrap logging trick used against miscreants to the benefit of all involved

[j.sabourn]

Pleased the Scrap Logbook was more or less official to most British ships. Know about the relevance of such as well as the Bridge movement book. The first thing removed after a collission or other mishap before if possible any collaberation between the Bridge and E.R. The introduction of the two page logbook where the copy was torn out and sent to the office made it inpracticable to supposedly log the miscreant as was there indelibly for all to see. Other methods had then to be devised which didnt take too much working out. On noting protest in Holland and other ports on the continent usually the old man used to send me ashore to the Notary Public with the Deck Log as proof of bad weather re damage to cargo. Must have thought I looked honest as had to swear on the Bible that contents of Log were a true account. Cheers John Sabourn

[Captain Kong]

Hi Lou,
Captain Helmuth von Ruckteschell, was charged with War Crimes in 1945 and sent to gaol where he died a few years later.
Cheers
Brian.