Jolly Jack

[j.sabourn]

Le Retirement to me was when I retired from seagoing employment. I have 10 years on you, so would no doubt fail the medical. I was close to the edge when I did retire at 65. Any 65 year old now would probably have difficulty in passing the medical unless of course you were able to bribe the official Doctor. I have plenty of other work to keep me employed which is mainly charitable in most cases. I had enough flying time during my 49 years service and would rather spend what time left doing something more self satisfying. There is nothing less satisfying to me than spending time in airports and nothing more lonely than a hotel room by oneself especially in a foreign country. The so called glamour of such wore off many moons ago. Best of luck with your journeys. Cheers John Sabourn

[happy daze john in oz]

Go to any asian country and the method of getting anyhting done is by the 'grease the palm' method. It works very well and keeps the wheels turning. Sadly so mnay are in total ignorance of what goes on in the world. The worst are those who have never left their home shores. In Thailand a couple of years ago and a local who we know well took us to see some of the 'livlier' night spots. Lads as young as 8 offereing their siblings as young as 3 up for sex. It has been going on since cocky was in the egg and somehow I cannot see it ending anytime soon.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ivan I admire you taking up a post in Pakistan, crikey that would be a true hardship post. We stopped dealing there about ten years ago just too hard dealing with them & their collective honesty was problematic. Must say I loved the story of debt collection too much.

Richard, suspect Lal is now in his heaven or paradise, must say that in my time (70's) in Pakistan there wasn't the animosity between various religions that there is today. Had been a Marine Super in the UK for 9 years when saw this job in Lloyds List wanting a Marine Super for Switzerland (visions of looking after ferries on Lake Geneva) which appealed to me. Also knew I had progressed as far as I could in the UK company and could see the writing on the wall. Anyway applied and got it, then found out it was being stationed in Karachi as Super and General Manager Whoops! anyway took the Bull by the horns, handed in my notice, sold my house, sold my car all within 30 days and on my way to Pakistan.

Cultural shock, doesn't describe it, but my Merchant Navy time and training stood me in good stock, be prepared for anything at any time. My previous job, everything was done by the book both on the ships I looked after and also the shoreside part of it and it was what you considered normal. Anyway not having any General manager experience was not a draw back, as could see that the previous incumbent had been neither use nor ornament, also had no sea going experience and barely knew the sharp end of a ship to the blunt end, so that gave me Carte Blanche to reorganise everything much to the chagrin of my new Swiss employers who were not used to being told what to do, rather than them telling people what to to in Swiss regulated ways, they really should stick to making Cuckoo clocks and Swiss Army Knives.

I did find that my Pakistani work gangs both aboard ship and on shore would work very hard and willingly if they had someone who could show them what to do, and I did enjoy getting my hands dirty, and once they had been shown how to rig something, how to repair something then it became a matter of pride and they wouldn't let Sahib do it anymore, and once they knew that Sahib knew how to do something there was no more shirking. What I did not understand is how some of the Europeans in charge expected these poor buggers to work as hard as Europeans when their basic diet was 3 or 4 bowls of rice a day plus a few bits of meat and in temperatures exceeding 100 plus and of course it was worse in Ramadam, when they never ate or drank, and I went along with them in that and they knew it and I felt they appreciated it.

What you had to do is get the Serang on your side, you knew he would steal from you, but at least he stopped all the others stealing from you, so you had some control over it. I would talk to them, ask them about their families, especially their sons of whom they were always proud. I found that other Europeans would not talk to their workers, it was simply "not done" being brought up at sea taught us to be more tolerant and understand the ways of others.

What I did find is that my four years in Pakistan made me more worldly wise and opened my eyes to corruption methods I had never thought possible, it made me financially aware, which I thought I already was before going there, but found out I really knew nothing. It was a hard life with many restrictions and lack of goods and amenities used to previously, but glad I did it, because it led onto better things.

Well her who must be obeyed is calling as I am supposed to be leaving shortly for Gatwick (a five hour drive) thence the USA

Regards to all.

[j.sabourn]

Ivan what all these posts show is that there is very little honesty as such anywhere in the world. It is only to a lesser or greater degee. Basically I believe there is much more honesty to the working man than there is to some of the highly and so called sophisticated ones. If I had to choose who was the most dishonest I think I would choose the one in the 800 dollar suit as against the one in a boiler suit or jeans. There again it may be the opportunity to be dishonest which I always think is there in big business. The one diddling the social services is always considered more corrupt than the big stock broker stealing huge amounts on the stock exchange. The more they steal the bigger should be the sentence, this is not always the case. Regards John Sabourn.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ivan what all these posts show is that there is very little honesty as such anywhere in the world. It is only to a lesser or greater degee. Basically I believe there is much more honesty to the working man than there is to some of the highly and so called sophisticated ones. If I had to choose who was the most dishonest I think I would choose the one in the 800 dollar suit as against the one in a boiler suit or jeans. There again it may be the opportunity to be dishonest which I always think is there in big business. The one diddling the social services is always considered more corrupt than the big stock broker stealing huge amounts on the stock exchange. The more they steal the bigger should be the sentence, this is not always the case. Regards John Sabourn.

Definately my last post before setting off for Gatwick !!

Yes there perhaps more opportunities for the suited gentry, but I worked with many very very many honest suited men whilst Broking, who worked all hours sometimes 7 days a week to get the best for their clients, never took anything except a bottle at christmas from a grateful client. In a lot of situations temptation is put your way, I know working in Pakistan and later Dubai opportunities were there a plenty but I never succumbed feeling that what would wife and family have done without me and I like to sleep at night. I know situations where men who didn't join the Fiddling Club were soon worked out of a job. I got paid what I had contractually agreed and was happy with that, all these stories about Arabs giving their employees huge bonuses, are just that ! stories! never ever got a penny above my salary, not even at Christmas or Eidd, my salary was fair at the time.



I still tend to believe there are more honest people in the world, than dishonest and that is what keeps my faith in human nature which is generally good.

[Rodney Mills]

Ivan, double thanks for two excellent, well writen posts, and from a shipmate with integrity...Well bloody done! I agree with your premises wholeheartedly.

Cheers, Rodney