British seafarer

[denniswalker]

Hi all,please correct me if i am wrong.Are there any young lads or lassies joining ships as good old fashion,edh's,ab's,scr's or cooks.I heard that it is mostly cadetships.I hope that i am wrong or will there be a demise of the British seafarer as we know it .cheers dennis

[Capt Bill Davies]

Dennis,

Get yourself along to the open day at one of the few Nautical Colleges we have left. You'll be horrified at what you see is 'Cadet Material' both Deck and Engine.
The VAST MAJORITY of our home type are in their mid/late 20s and mid 30s is not uncommon. Some with post grad and Doctorates from some decent Uni's. As these only form a small percentage of those in the college , so what. It's Bums on seats and our brothers from the ONCE sub continent are walking out with an UK STCW 'two one or two all' whatever they call it. But the kudos of a UK Class 1.

As for ratings,

The ratings were dealt a terrible blow by the STCW carrot and stick. Make the exams so easy, helped by the owners who said 'get a ticket or your out of work'. This caused a vacuum to be filled by third world ratings. As though the owners and the MCA didn't know.

I could go on.

The British Seafarer.........he's finished.

Now wheres that Russian Tit!

Bill

[denniswalker]

Bill i understand what u r saying.I have a nephew who wanted to go to sea,the companies were only interested in cadets.He went to college done two years in marine engineering,now cannot get a placement with a comppany until January.I totally agree with you after hundreds of years that the British Merchant Seaman will be finished in the next twenty or thirty years,sad. Cheers dennis

[John Callon]

I think the Merchant Navy as we knew it is already finished Dennis. I see you live in Glasgow so maybe you are familiar with Clyde Marine. They have a college on the Clyde in the city centre, you must have seen the lifeboats slung out on the davits outside classrooms. Whether anybody ever gets a position at sea after completing the course I have no idea. Everyday I thank the good Lord that he allowed me to go to sea in 1959 and then for next 25 years. Without doubt the greatest learning curve that any young man could venture on. We saw the world, got gloriously
rat arsed, bagged off, missed ships and got paid for all this. Todays youth have no idea.
Regards
John

[Ivan Cloherty]

Bill i understand what u r saying.I have a nephew who wanted to go to sea,the companies were only interested in cadets.He went to college done two years in marine engineering,now cannot get a placement with a comppany until January.I totally agree with you after hundreds of years that the British Merchant Seaman will be finished in the next twenty or thirty years,sad. Cheers dennis

In a US Marine Journal today it was reported that the Chinese Merchant Marine is ..........wait for it !!........... is short of 50,000, yes 50,000 marine officers for its projected fleet over the next couple of years. Senior officers are being offered the equivalent of USD 31,000 per annum and graduate juniors USD 11,000 per annum to join the Merchant Navy. The USA Merchant Marine is also short of Officers for its projected fleet. Seems that we will be totally edged out anyway so our training standards are becoming more and more irrelevant.

Thank god I went to sea when I did, better get all your experiences down on paper lads so that future generations will know that we once had a Merchant Navy and that there were at times in the past there were other flags on the world's oceans other than Chinese and American

[robpage]

In 1967 as apprentices , we had some amongst us from a company without a ship at that time , called OCL . The first of the green and white bay boats I think appeared in early 1969 . The smart characters we were with , although few in number had the impression that the box carrying leviathans would knock us general cargo people off the face of the sea , We knew it would never happen , the dockers did not like them , the small ports could not handle them , it was a passing fad , like the LASH ships , no one in there right mind would see a future in it . Those big tankers that were being built then would not fit through Suez when it eventually re-opened . No the future was secure . The Dockers and the NUS opposed everything progressive , we were safe in the hands of the Unions . Britain would always have a fleet of 12,000 tonne cargo ships running on 30 tonnes a day of 1500 second diesel , with the Old Man , three deck officers , seven engineers , an RO , a catering officer a couple of apprentices , Ten catering , eight Engine Room and a dozen Deck ratings . THEN ....

GP crews came along
The RO became a multi task man
Ships doubled in size and the crew reduced
Oil tankers grew to 300,000 tonnes
The Docks shut and the container ports opened , with less dockers and more trade
The Fleets owned by Shell and BP flagged out
The Channel tunnel opened and the ferries grew to three times the size with the same crewing , but instead of one day on and three days off involving five crews for each ship they did two weeks on two weeks off saying goodbye to three crews straight away

I saw enormous strides forward from 1966 - 1987 , roughly ten years of labour and ten years of conservative governments , Each in turn watched the ships get bigger , the crewing get smaller , and the once dominant Red Ensign slowly disappear . Shipping companies diversified , British and Commonwealth sold itself out and died playing with computers , P & O built houses and financial institutions . And the watchdog that stood against any progress the communist inspired Union Man , well his teeth were drawn and the officialdom grew fat and took their places at the trough in the big house next door to the House of Commons .

I was there when the party was on , I watched the slow death , and by the time I left the funeral plans were in place , Take a job in shore side Engineering management , emigrate , obtain a Liberian Ticket were all options , sail under the Bright red banner was not .

I loved every ( well most ) moment , Enjoyed every drop , and all that is left is to attend the perpetual wake and reminisce here with the other survivors . To hear the impossible tales that were truth based , and know it probably did happen , leaves a warmth and a camaraderie that is unique . The Clan Line Engineer who dropped dead in the Off Licence in Glasgow on his way home after his last retirement trip saw his docking bottle drain before he mounted the gangway , probably realised he would never be happy in a place where Scottish Whisky was more than 5/- a bottle . The cigarettes that relieved the boredom and calmed the nerves at 2/- a packet , all long gone

The fellowship of the sea is what remains , that and the memories of a warm breeze and a calm sea , the smell of the elephants as deck cargo as they shed waste all over the deck , Fish Meal stinking clothes and body with its noxious odours , crude oil staining your hands , The fireman doing a watch on his birthday Missed out of his head .

The bloody dreamers that thought 250,000 tonne tankers and huge box boats would take over the world , well ..............

[Capt Bill Davies]

I was there when the party was on , I watched the slow death , and by the time I left the funeral plans were in place , Take a job in shore side Engineering management , emigrate , obtain a Liberian Ticket were all options , sail under the Bright red banner was not .

Very eloquent Rob. I'll use that if and when I go to another NI meeting.

Bill

[robpage]

Very eloquent Rob. I'll use that if and when I go to another NI meeting.

Bill

Just out of passing interest Bill . I left the Institute of Marine Engineers several decades ago , when I thought it actually was for Marine Engineers ashore , not marine Engineers at sea , and , realising that the Nautical Institute exists to provide the Strongest possible professional focus , dedicated to improving standards of those involved in control of Seagoing craft , Is it still a majority of seagoing members , or is that waning to ?

[Roger Dyer]

Hi Rob,

Have just read your magnificent post and, personally, think it the best, most succinct yet colourful comment on the demise of the British M.N. I've read for quite some time. You said it all, mate, well done and thank you.

................regards, Roger.

[Capt Bill Davies]

Just out of passing interest Bill . I left the Institute of Marine Engineers several decades ago , when I thought it actually was for Marine Engineers ashore , not marine Engineers at sea , and , realising that the Nautical Institute exists to provide the Strongest possible professional focus , dedicated to improving standards of those involved in control of Seagoing craft , Is it still a majority of seagoing members , or is that waning to ?

Rob,

The Nautical Institute has morphed into something I do not recognise and in this respect I should think we are both of a similar mind. The NI is now an institute for shore people. Some time ago the rules, no doubt to bolster funds, were changed. No longer was there a requirements for holding holding a Master Mariner (FG) or STCW Class 1 (Deck) for membership this was extended to anyone having some connection with shipping. That was bad enough but when they pushed this same requirement into the Fellowship that did it for me. I resigned.

Brgds

Bill