Safety and the Shipowner

[Ivan Cloherty]

Of course there were good ship owners and bad ones but having been a Supt for nine years for a British company and eight years for two foreign companies I cannot recall the British owner circumventing any rules. Of course I had to account for every penny spent, after all it was a business and not a charity, but no penny pinching went on Safety Surveys or equipment and new items of equipment were always supplied before they became a compulsory item. Being a young man and full of vinegar I wanted to change the world and supply my fellow ex seafarers with a better life than hitherto experienced both in work practices and leave entitlements, it was harder work getting the seafarers to agree to changes than it was the owners! even though it meant more expense for the owner. There was an attitude amongst some of the older Masters and Chief Engineers that 'we never had it so why should you' sometimes it was silly little things that upset them, dartboards for the crews mess, packs of playing cards, curtains for the messrooms and saloons, better and more comfortable chairs for messrooms and cabins. The better the conditions the less crew changes, the less crew (all departments) changes meant less train fares/expenses this offset the little luxuries supplied. Masters/mates/Ch.Engs were sometimes their own worst enemies inflating stores and spares requirements beyond what they could possibly use on the intended voyage(s) or just sending in repeat orders which meant cupboards of batteries out of date, coils of wires going rusty under the fo'cstle, enough spare piston rings for three main engines when the ship only had one. I could go on, it took a long time to change their attitude to 'order what you need and the red pencil will be thrown away and if the list includes a few items that will increase crew satisfaction, include them'

Having 22 ships and 27 masters was like having 27 housewives some could manage a house some couldn't and relief masters changing a good working routine on a ship was another bugbear. The company wasn't always to blame for the conditions seafarers sailed under.

With the foreign owned companies (Swiss/Pakistan and Arab) it wasn't penny pinching it was the lack of knowledge of the shore staff who if they didn't understand what they were really about or what a ship needed, it was a Lake Geneva boat or Arab Dhow mentality it would take pages to describe the struggles to change those mentalities but eventually did get there. Not one person in the office, apart from the owner had actually been on a deep sea ship in the Swiss company, the same with the Arab company. Once experience visits were introduced things did improve, but it was hard work but interesting and educational.

Like all professions there are two sides to a coin

[Captain Kong]

In ESSO they started to put Office Staff on board our ships, as Supernumeries, from the Gulf round to Europe and vice versa. It gave them a good idea of what a voyage was all about, ship handling, loading and the day to day running of the ships and the various functions each crew member had to do. It was an eye opener for them but they then understood all the difficulties, stresses and even pleasures of Seafaring.
Sometimes a Seafarer was assigned to the Office and worked there for his usual voyage time of say four months and the input from him also helped.
So when reports went into the Office they could visualise what it referred to. Certainly helped the attitudes between ship and shore.
Cheers
Brian.

[j.sabourn]

There again there were those who wanted to make a name for themselves by keeping ships short of stores that were required. Was purely the individual himself that mattered the same I should imagine in any industry. The older masters were in my younger days more prone to putting the work load out to others on ship which suited me. I was never knocked back on the ship for stores ordered, only in the office. I remember as 2nd. Mate, the mate had gone home on leave and the stores supt. came onboard full of wind and pizz. I see the mate has ordered 5 new tarpaulins and the previous mate only had to order one. I said to him if the previous mate had ordered the correct amount at the time 5 new tarps would not have been required now. I was mate with Dalgliesh in 1964 and ordered 5 Gallon of white gloss. The superintendent came down to ship and wanted to know what I wanted for, to paint the Bridge front I said, you either supply or you don't I couldn't care less, will save us all a job if you don't. As regards safety stores the companies had no option but to supply as ordered as a ship not getting through its Safety survey or LSA survey would really have caused problems for the owners. Every company I was with had their good and bad as regards stores and other things also as regards good and bad people who did the ordering, as usually they were ordering for their relief in a lot of cases, perhaps more thought should have gone into it in some cases. Where a lot of the companies did skimp on was food, and I have no doubt in a lot of cases this was the Ch. Stwd. chasing his bonus. Every ship and company different. John Sabourn

[j.sabourn]

Ships run on the old H.K. system of a monthly portage account, shows how illicit money was available to the dishonest. These same perks must also be there for any store superintendent also. This was probably why this part of storing was taking away from ship and done through the office. A good example of this is that all storing used to be on a cash system. Taking stores in Rotterdam say 5000 pounds are spent, there used to be 10 percent back for cash in a lot of cases, and this would have been 500 pounds. There were other ways of accruing cash and as there are people on this site who worked on foreign flag ships must be well aware of. I was aware of some who took advantage of this when I was mate, when I had the opportunity to do the same I never took, but looking back at my morals then and now, I think I would be hard put not to go for it now, and don't think I would have such a strict conscience nowadays. When I say taking away from ship and done in office, I would imagine some thought they were also onto a good thing. John Sabourn

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ships run on the old H.K. system of a monthly portage account, shows how illicit money was available to the dishonest. These same perks must also be there for any store superintendent also. This was probably why this part of storing was taking away from ship and done through the office. A good example of this is that all storing used to be on a cash system. Taking stores in Rotterdam say 5000 pounds are spent, there used to be 10 percent back for cash in a lot of cases, and this would have been 500 pounds. There were other ways of accruing cash and as there are people on this site who worked on foreign flag ships must be well aware of. I was aware of some who took advantage of this when I was mate, when I had the opportunity to do the same I never took, but looking back at my morals then and now, I think I would be hard put not to go for it now, and don't think I would have such a strict conscience nowadays. When I say taking away from ship and done in office, I would imagine some thought they were also onto a good thing. John Sabourn

John better to keep your morals and to able to sleep at night instead of waiting for that knock on the door. Like you, my opportunities were plentiful to make something on the side but never did, I knew those in other companies who did, they weren't any happier. Rope suppliers, paint suppliers, chandlers were only too happy to get you in their clutches, I upset many by rejecting their advances, they got the business on merit and the quality of their products and I had no qualms about putting various vessels on similar runs with different paint suppliers (or others) to get actual experience of their products, kept them on their toes and products good, was able to negotiate good discounts which were ploughed back into more paint supplies for the vessels and also benefitted as a company by suppliers to try out their new products free of charge. I had no objection to the Master/Mate/Ch Eng/2-eng being given a bottle occasionally from various suppliers. Wasn't too popular with my fellow supts on occasions as their 'Christmas presents' dwindled, but what the hell they weren't paying my wages. Personally I like to be in a position where I can put my two fingers up to anybody who accuses me of improprietry

[happy daze john in oz]

From my experiences of British ships ther were in the main well run. The biggest problem from a catering crew point of view the biggest problem was the second steward who controled all the stores.
Of modern day cruise ships the worst I have come across for food, passenger safety and general condition is P&O. It appears to be a far cry from the P&O we all knew.
Lifebost drill consisted of getting all two thousnd of us into an 800 seater theatre to listen to a lecture on life boat safety.
With most others it is either held under your allocated life boat, or at your muster station.

[Rick R]

When I was a cadet in drydock, the superintendant turned up to take a photo of contractors painting a 3 square meter section of the cargp hold on scaffolding, immediately after the photo, the scaffolding was removed and the painters dissapeared. Several similar jobs occured in this way during the drydock, and the wide assumption was the the Super was pocketing some nice brown envelopes in exchange for uncompleted jobs...

[Ivan Cloherty]

When I was a cadet in drydock, the superintendant turned up to take a photo of contractors painting a 3 square meter section of the cargp hold on scaffolding, immediately after the photo, the scaffolding was removed and the painters dissapeared. Several similar jobs occured in this way during the drydock, and the wide assumption was the the Super was pocketing some nice brown envelopes in exchange for uncompleted jobs...

There are bad apples in every job, luckily I was never tempted, in Pakistan, India, Far East (but not as much) it was a way of life, living in Pakistan and Middle East for a number of years dealing with India and far East also opened my eyes to a whole new world, but not one for the better, luckily parental guidance stood me in good stead. I am still poor monetary wise but rich in experiences

[Rick R]

There are bad apples in every job, luckily I was never tempted, in Pakistan, India, Far East (but not as much) it was a way of life, living in Pakistan and Middle East for a number of years dealing with India and far East also opened my eyes to a whole new world, but not one for the better, luckily parental guidance stood me in good stead. I am still poor monetary wise but rich in experiences

I agree, I work for a government organisation here in the Middle East where orders are through tender and tender committees but still get approached by suppliers. I received a box from a supplier recently containing several brand new mobile phones, which I quickly declared and returned to them. Morally it's wrong, and it's not worth risking my job over. The Indian supplier couldn't understand why I wasn't allowed to accept the gift.

[Keith Tindell]

The management side of running the ship is something i have no experience of, but when i think back to the maintenance of the ship, it was a constant round of chipping soogy, painting etc, stages over the side etc. With todays skimpy crews who does all the maintenance , is it shore crews, drydocking etc, it must be a balance between crews wages and shore side maintenance. Or is everything afloat a rust bucket?. when i was on Mcandrews, white hulls, white everthing, it would cost a fortune for shore crews to do it. KT