Houlder Bros.

[Erica Jones]

Did anyone work a gas boat called Joule 81/82 ish?

[Captain Kong]

Hi Erica,
here is a photo of the Joule,
In didn't sail on her.

I should have been in San Diego a week ago but the trip was cancelled due to the Virus.
been there many times My son was a Doctor at the Scripps in La Jolla for a few years
Love it there,
Cheers
Brian .

[Celtichef]

Hi Erica,

I sailed on the Joule about 82, small gas tanker, spent most of the time in the North Sea between tees port and Norway .

Mike

[Tony Reynolds]

Hello,
I sailed on the St Margaret as JE and she definitely carried iron ore.
Hope you are all staying safe during this pandemic business.
Tony

[ian avery]

Hello, I saield on the st Margaret in 1972, and it was definaetly an ore carrier then.

I think some of the confusion may be because various ships get renamed, for various reasons.

I sailed on the Joya McCance( Oil tanker), the hardwick Grange( Fridge ship, + general cargo), st Margaret (ore carrier), Tenbury (General Cargo), , Orenda Bridge ( Bulk and Ore carrier) Star Pinewood (Bulk Paper carrier), Sagamore (ore carrier), Westbury (general Cargo), Clydebridge ( Bulk carrier), Faraday ( Liquid Gas Carrier) , Calandria (mini ship)

I started as a Navigating cadet in 1970 and left as a Second mate in 1977.

If anyone remembers me, or these ships, please get in touch.

LOve and hugs,
Lawrie Shaw

Hi lawrie,
I know this is an old post, I don't look through all posts; but as this was about Houlder Bros and notice you sailed on three ships I was on, Joya McCance, Hardwick Grange and the Orenda Bridge, 1970 - 1972. I can't remember people as it was so long ago. Not seen on here anyone mention the same ships and dates I was on before. Ian

[Captain Kong]

Here is a typical voyage on one of Houlders, Its been on before but may bring back some memories of Argentina and Uruguay.


A VOYAGE ON THE SS URMSTON GRANGE, 1958.

On the 1st of March 1958, I joined the Urmston Grange, one of Houlders, in Liverpool. She was one of the `Park Boats`, similar to a Fort but with a raised focsle head. We were amazed to see all the dockers wearing space mens` suits loading steel drums on both sides of the after deck, from the mess room house and after accommodation for Sailors and Firemen to the accommodation amidships. A ladder both ends and a walkway of planks across the top of them.
We sailed later that day outward bound for Montevideo and Buenos Aires and then finding out that the contents of the drums was Nuclear waste. All that was on top of our accommodation.
On the way down to Montevideo we called at St Vincent in the Cape Verde Islands for bunkers. As the days got warmer we had to hose down the hundreds of drums with hoses several times a day to keep them cool as they started to make bubbling noises. We were headed for a deep sea trench to the east of South America around the same latitude as Argentina.
When we got there we lifted out the rails alongside number four and five hatches. The Liverpool Dockers had space suits on, we just had shorts and flip flops. We then rolled the barrels over the side, disappearing into the depths of this deep trench.
I have been thinking since, what happens when the drums corrode and all this nuclear waste leaks out into the ocean and then gets into the shoals of fish and also drifts north contaminating everything it comes across.?
At the time we knew nothing of nuclear contamination or its effects.
Eventually we arrived in Montevideo to discharge some of our cargo. Across the road from the dock was the California Bar.
[Four years ago it was up for sale, se vende, I wanted to buy it but the wife wouldn’t let me.].
It was a good bar then and had a few pretty girls in there, Paquita was my favourite, she was lovely.
One night when our crowd was in there, around ten of us sat at a long table, next us was a table full of Swedes. I was on the end of our table and opposite me was a Swede, we got chatting, he told me he was off the `Uruguay` a Johnson liner that was tied up astern of us.
While we were talking I happened to say that he spoke excellent English. He said “Yes I do, do you speak Swedish?” I replied `No`.
His attitude suddenly changed, “Why not, is Swedish not good enough for you?” I replied that I had never been to Sweden.
Then he says “So Sweden is not good enough for you” then he stands up and hit me so hard my Granny felt it 7,000 miles away.
I did a complete somersault over the back of my chair hit the wall behind me and landed on the deck.
Our crowd jumped up and the battle began. The girls were screaming and around twenty men were battering each other. I stayed where I was as the sawdust built up around me from the destroyed furniture.
Then the Vigilanties rushed in, armed with rifles, sabres, and pistols.
A Swede hit one of the Vigies, The Vigie drew his sabre and hit the Swede on the head, I saw the sabre slice through his skull as far down as this nose, like chopping an apple. A fountain of blood shot up to the ceiling and the Swede collapsed in a pool of blood. Kinnel, this shouldn’t be happening.
Another Swede grabbed the pistol out of the Vigies holster and fired it, a deafening crack and every one hit the deck.
He ran out of the door and turned right and ran into a yard at the back of the bar, He was cornered and the Vigies went after him. We heard shots as we jumped over the body of the young Swede and turned left and ran across the road to our ship, up the gangway and battened down our cabins and turned in. We never went ashore again, the Swedish flag on the `Uruguay` was at half mast. A very sad night, I felt awful, because I could not speak Swedish two men died.
We sailed the following day across the Rio del Plata to Buenos Aires.
In B.A. the place to go was the Calle Viente Cinco de Mayo, or 25th of May Street.
All the best bars in B.A. were there, Texas Bar, Marina Bar, Lighthouse Bar, May Sullivans Bar, and more, all the way down the street. All full of beautiful young ladies eager to make us welcome. May Sullivan was a Liverpool lady, who had lived in B.A. for many years. She always wore dark glasses, sat on a stool playing poker dice. If you were short of money May would help you out but you had to pay back or else. I heard she died in 1992.
One night Charlie Williams and I were in the Lighthouse Bar at 3 in the morning, the only customers left. He thought it was a good idea to take some of the as trays back to the ship, so we put a few down the inside of our shirts The bar staff were watching as these two stupid plonkies then started to collect table cloths and stuffing them down into their shirts.
I saw the Bar Tender shouting for the Vigilantes through the door, I shouted to Charlie, put them back the Vigies are coming. Charlie opened the top of a piano and we stuffed the table cloths and ash trays in the top.
The Vigies charged in and started to search us and they found one ash tray left in Charlie`s shirt. That is when the fun started.
We were dragged outside and flung to the deck and then they started to batter us with their rifle butts. I can say it was extremely painful. Then a paddy wagon arrived and we were flung into it covered in blood from cut heads and noses.
We were taken down to the Calabozo and searched, all our money, watches, cigarettes and lighters were taken off us, never to be seen again.
At six am we were pulled out of the cell and taken to the stables and told to clean out all the horse manure and scrub it out and then wash the arses of the horses and brush them down. Very difficult when you have a massive hang over exacerbated with a battered and swollen head covered in dried blood. At nine o`clock they let us out and we staggered back to the ship and turned in.
A couple of days later I was in the Texas bar and met a beautiful bar maid, Cleopatra. She only had eyes for me and really made a fuss of me. I danced a tango with her. Our bodies were entwined, I could smell the perfume in her hair, and the electricity between us was magic. She finished her shift at 12 midnight.
I thought I had cracked it, all night with a beautiful young lady. We walked hand in hand along the Avenida, across the Plaza towards the Pink Palace and then down the side street on the right side of the Palace, then up some steps into a building of apartmentos.
In her apartment she poured me a drink of Anis and put her record player on, we danced slowly and held each other in our arms and gently kissed as we swayed to the music. It was a very sad love song of a young Gaucho and his Senorita, they were sat on the Pampas singing to each other and when she hit the high notes the cattle stampeded and they were trampled to death under a thousand Bovine hooves.
She then invited me to her boudoir, I was in faster than Flynn. We divested ourselves of our clothes to the strains of a Tango. I was down to my boxers and socks when she slid her panties down, Shock Horror, she had a bigger wedding tackle than I had.
I was out of there quicker than I went in, down the steps, up the street out by the Pink Palace and across the Plaza. The Vigilantes Guarding the Palace were shouting, “Halta, mucho loco Inglezi Marinero” I carried on running, just in my boxers and socks. They gave chase but couldn’t catch me, they were weighed down with their uniforms and guns and sabres. I ran through La Boca, along the railway tracks to No. 4 Berth through the side of the sheds and up the gangway and down aft to the mess room.Where I collapsed on the bench. Gasping for breath.
“What`s the matter with you Lah?” said Charlie. I told them what had happened and I that I had left all my gear behind with my sub in my pockets at Cleopatras` apartmento. You would have been OK with `her` said Charlie, I was with `her` last trip. I guess there is no accounting for taste.
Some nights we spent in the Marina Bar, some real lovely girls in there.
They also had a show by a Tap Dancer. He was announced as “Georgee Murphee, English Tap Dancing Spoken”.
George Murphy was a famous American Tap Dancer who danced with Fred Astaire in the movies.
He would come on the floor in a bright green suit, tap dancing away. Then he would leap onto a table and dance between the glasses, then some of the lads would pull a table away as he lept from one to another. Georgee would crash onto the floor and get up and carry on tap dancing. We would buy him a drink after and he would say, “I want to go to Engaland to be a famous tap danceer like Georgee Murphee or Fred Astaire, can you stow me away on your ship”.
No problem, we said, we will let you know when we are sailing.
We were sailing down Patagonia and round the Horn to some obscure islands and then to Punta Arenas in Chile, so obviously we couldnt stow him away for that length of time but we didn’t tell him that.
Then we sailed without him, to Necochea down the coast into Patagonia.
We were only there for one night and just a little cowboy town. Wood buildings and side walks. When we came out of the only bar we were surrounded by hundreds of horses, we had to squeeze past them to get back to the jetty. They are a problem there all strays just wandering about.
Then we went to Rio Quequen.
Just a small town on the river with a few wood shacks, stockyards, an abattoir
and one pub with an ugly old bartender.
We had a beer in the pub and asked the barman where was all the life around
here. He said the next pub, `Hotel Nova Pompaya` was up the road about 15 kilometres, we didn`t know what a kilometre was but Charlie thought it was less than a mile ,so we didnt have far to go. We got the only taxi in town and after an hour of bouncing on a rough dirt track through the pampas we arrived. It was dark and in the moonlight we could see a couple of small shacks behind a saloon with a hitchin post outside, and a wood side walk. A few horses were hobbled, with their front legs tied, grazing.
A dim glow of an oil lamp showed through the batwing doors. This was the Hotel `Nova Pompaya`.
We walked through the batwing doors into a dim bar room only lit by two oil lamps, a group of gauchos sat around a table. They wore baggy keks made of white canvas, Boots up to their knees, a gun belt and big sombreros, we thought that we had walked onto a John Wayne movie lot. Behind the bar was a very attractive young barmaid , she was serving a gaucho with four thimble sized glasses of Anis,
`What are you having , Men` I asked, `The same but big ones`,.they replied.
The barmaid smiled at me "quatro bottelos Anis y quatro grande vasas por favor mia querida." I said squinting my eyes trying to smile like John Wayne.
The barmaid was amazed and the gauchos got up to look at us , muttering , Mucho loco hombres.
We started on the four bottles of Anis, we`ll show these Gauchos how to drink, they dont call me Alehouse for nothing.
We emptied the four bottles and Charlie ordered another four, on the bar was an old gramophone with a big horn on top. I went to the barmaid and asked what her name was, Theresa, and if she would play a record.
She smiled at me and put on a scratchy old record of a tango, turned the handle and wound it up. I asked her to dance, after a bottle of Anis I was a fantastic dancer, I held her in my arms and swayed to the music and the Anis, I could feel the warmth and contours of her body as I held her close and as we danced she responded and pressed herself against me, I could smell her perfume. It felt good, it had been two weeks since I had held a young lady in my arms and that was Cleopatra in Buenos Aires, I hoped Theresa wasn`t like `her`.
I whispered in her ear that I wanted her , like now. She told me to go outside and wait but not to let the gauchos see me. I went back to Charlie and Martin and told them I was going outside to see Theresa. `I fancied her` said Charlie, "I fancied her as well` said Martin, , "Too late this time I got in first."
I slowly walked to the door and slid outside when the gauchos weren`t looking.

A minute or so later Theresa whispered from the darkness, we met and kissed passionately. `Come`, she said, holding my hand leading me to a small shack, we went in and she lit an oil lamp, it was just a sparse room with a bed a chair and table. We fell into a passionate embrace onto the bed, she was panting with desire,
" Mucho rapido, mucho rapido" she gasped, "Dos minutos". So I mucho rapidoed as fast as I could. Her long finger nails were scratching my back as she screamed and threshed about underneath me, she was fantastico.
Dos Minutos later we were getting dressed breathlessly. " Go" she said and mind the gauchos.
I strolled back into the bar as casually as I could with my legs still trembling.
Then Charley and Martin were shouting " how was it , was she good".?
The gauchos didn`t like it, they knew what was going on, Two minutes later Theresa walked through the back door and a gaucho went to her shouting abuse at her then he belted her across the face , she screamed in pain and a trickle of blood ran down from her lips.
I jumped up and went over and smashed the gaucho in the face with a big iron fist knocking him over his table and knocking the drinks and all his mates on the floor. I stood over him, " You Bastardo, don`t ever do that again".
I was walking back to the lads when there was a hell of a bang and crack and a bullet whistled past my ear and hit the top of the bat wing door splintering the wood and leaving the door swinging.
" Kinnell" I turned around and the gaucho was stood there pointing a revolver at me. The smell of gun powder in the air, Charly and Martin had disapeared through the door as fast as the bullet, this was not in the script.
I was wetting my knickers, " Take it easy , Hombre, Que pasa, que pasa nada." I said as I was walking backwards towards the door, as I got there I dived through the door as there was another bang and the door frame splintered...
I found Charly and Martin hiding outside in the darkness, fortunately the gauchos didn`t follow us , we stood there trying to figure out what to do, there was no telephone or electricity up there so we couldn`t call a taxi.
We were stranded 15 kilometers from the ship,. "Here`s another fine mess you`ve gotten us into " said Charlie.
Just then Theresa called from the back of the saloon, I went to her, she flung her arms around me and we kissed, I could taste the salt of her tears and blood on her lips. She put a card into my hand, and whispered, " Via con dios , mi amor, hasta la vista." I kissed her again for the last time "Adios mia querida," I said as I slipped the ring , that Magnolia had given me last year when I had been thrown off a train, onto her finger, then she was gone into the darkness.
I stood there choked, if I had transport I would have taken her with me.
I walked back to the lads, " What are we going to do now` said Martin. We were stood by the horses, `Lets take these` I said,
`We can`t ride a horse `Charlie said. `It`s the only chance we have if those gauchos come out we are dead. OK lets go.` we took the ropes off their legs and I climbed aboard one, Martin managed to get onboard his but Charlie dived on his and fell off the other side and landed on his head, he eventually got on and we set off at a swift cantor, with a couple of bottles of Anis down us it was easy and soon we were yeehawing and yahooing as we galloped across the pampas. It was just like the charge of the Light Brigade
We arrived at the jetty and straight up the gangway in single file and onto the after deck , we climbed off and went into the mess room " Kinnell, what a night" we told the other sailors. I pulled the card that Theresa had given me out of my pocket.
It was printed, " Theresa y Diaz y Llanos. Hotel Nova Pompaya, Rio Quequien,
on the back she had written, "Mi Amigo Brian, Pancho, [her name for me,] con simpatico y mucho amor, Su Amigo, Theresa." I still have the card 62
years later, and often look at it and wonder what ever happened to her.
I went to have a shower before turning in and found that I couldn`t take my shirt off, it was stuck to my skin with dried blood, Charlie said " Have you been shot?" “ No it was from the scratches from Theresa when she was in her frenzied passion.
I had to stand under the shower for a long time until I could peel the shirt off my back.
Next morning at 6 am the Bosun and the Mate were banging on our cabin doors, " All hands on deck, muy pronto,"
We all staggered out on deck feeling as rough as a badgers bum, Our bodies were wracked with pain from the long horse ride and the effects of the Anis..
When we got there we were surprised to see the after deck full of people. There were four gauchos, two Vigilantes, the Captain, Mate, Engineers and stewards and three large horses galloping around.
They were all shouting and gesticulating and when we appeared the gauchos started shouting and pointing at us.
The Captain, J. Capon. was trying to get order out of chaos, he said to us " Did you steal these horses last night?" We told him that the gauchos were shooting at us and trying to kill us so we had to take the horses to escape.. Meanwhile the Peggy brought out a large jug of coffee and we had a mug each, next thing we were staggering about as drunk as monkeys, The advantage of drinking Anis that it stays in your stomach and when you have a drink next day it reactivates it again Two drunks for the price of one.
The Vigilantes wanted to arrest us for horse stealing and said there was a death by hanging for horse theft, this wasn`t unusual at that time . In Argentina, around that time about 15,000 `Deschemisados` the shirtless ones, had gone missing in Argentina and were later found in mass graves,
At this we were rolling over laughing, then the gauchos said they wanted to shoot us, and when the gauchos tried to get the horses down the gangway we were hysterical laughing at their performance The horses were rearing up on their back legs and neighing, We were saying what kind of horsemen are these, us Sailors could get them up the gangway and they couldn`t get them down. The whole after deck was in complete chaos, The Captain Capon, who was fluent in Spanish had a word with the Vigilantes and gauchos, he then got the Stewards to go with him amidships and a few minutes later returned with six cases of Grants Standfast whisky. We just happened to have a cargo of Grants Standfast Whisky, There was one each for the Vigilantes and the gauchos. and they went down the gangway happy, The Mate got the sober AB`s to rig the derrick and with some canvas slings they swung the horses over the side and landed them onto the jetty. The Captain told the three of us to turn in and he would see us on the bridge in the morning.
All shore leave was stopped while we were in Rio Quequien.
The following morning Charlie, Martin and me went up on the bridge and met the Captain, He said we would be logged a days pay for being drunk and another days pay for missing a days work. also it would cost us two weeks wages each to pay for the whisky. "What?" we said , thats half a months wages we can`t afford that." "Do you want to make it one months wages?`, He said, `those Vigilantes could have taken you away and that would have been the end of you. I saved your lives not because I wanted to but I didn`t want to be short handed on deck for the rest of the voyage. "

Some times you just can`t win.

The next port was Rio Deseado in a bay surrounded by snow covered hills. It was getting quite cold now with occasional snow flurries.
We tied up to a small jetty, it looked a real dismal place and as it went dark early and a few oil lamps were lit around a few wooden shacks. We didn t bother going ashore.
Only there for around 24 hours then we moved further south to another dismal place, Rio Gallegos, We anchored in a bay and loaded frozen lamb from a barge. When we finished loading there The Chippy with all hands helping began to build pens on the after deck. We were to go to a couple of islands in the Beagle Channel to load some Llamas, Alpacas and Guanacos.
Then we headed south towards Cape Horn. Winter was not far away and we really could feel the cold. We had no cold weather gear and we really felt it, bloody cold on look out at night covered in frost.
One night we had just passed Staten Island I was on Look out
And it was a very calm night on the 12 to 4 watch. Not a ripple on the sea very dark, no moon, and the I heard a cry, “help” then again with a lot more voices, “help, help” I looked hard in the sea around us and could see there were quite a few heads in the darkness, I hit the bell and ran down the fore deck shouting up to the 2nd Mate there were people in the sea off the port bow.
I heard the Engine Telegraph ringing as I climbed up to the wheel house. I pointed in the darkness to where they were, He could see them and hear them as well.
Go call the Captain and all hands stand by the lifeboat. He started a Williamson Turn to bring her back towards the voices. Dead slow ahead.
The Captain on the bridge “What`s going on” The Second explained there were people in the sea, maybe a ship or fishing vessel has gone down.
The searchlight and the Aldis lamp was also switched on.
Then we saw them in the beam of the lights. Around 20 or so heads……….
Of Seals. All barking `ELP `ELP.
Captain Capon was going demented, all hands were complaining of being dragged out of there bunks on a freezing cold night. Trying to give me a hard time. It could be worse lads, I said, you could have had to go out in the lifeboat, now you can turn in again, the 4 to 8 watch moaned it wasn’t worth while turning in now.
Next day we sailed passed the famous Cape `Stiff`. [HORN] It was coming on winter and we were lucky, the weather was fine. We entered the Beagle Channel and on the port side was an island with a bay where we anchored. A couple of hours later a barge appeared being towed by a fishing boat and on deck were several Llamas all penned in.
We had canvas slings and lifted them one by one onto the after deck and into the pens the Chippy had built. A couple of hours later we heaved up the anchor and steamed further up the Beagle Channel. to another Island and the same performance. With some more animals.then on to Punta Arenas, Chile in the Magellan Straits, the following day. Awnings were rigged for them to keep them out of the snow and freezing rain and later the hot tropical sun
We tied up alongside the Pier, it was a small wooden one, today it is quite a long pier built of stone. We were to load more frozen lamb here to complete the cargo, then a crate appeared on the back of a lorry and inside was a baby Guanaco.
Animal feeds were brought down , hay and other stuff like oats and troughs for water and feed. The baby Guanaco, had to be fed with a babies bottle and a special powdered milk every four hours round the clock. A good job for the Farmer of the watch, make the milk and feed the baby.. It looked far too young to have been taken from its mother.
We had two days in Punta Arenas a few drinks in a few bars, nothing exciting there, then we were homeward bound.
We sailed through the Straits of Magellan with its fabulous scenery high mountains covered in snow and ice and glaciers. Then up the coast to Montevideo where we anchored out and a bunker barge came to top us up.
We looked after the animals with feeds and water topped up, pens cleaned out every day. They were very interesting and quite friendly after a few days.
We eventually arrived in London and paid off. We were all given a sheep skin and a carcass of frozen lamb to take home.The Cook chopped up the carcass`s and placed them in a cardboard box.
In those days we had no fridge at home so Mother did a deal with the local butcher, he let us keep it in the fridge there and he got a cut of it.
And so ended a very interesting voyage.

Charlie , me and Martin , dancing on stage in a Bar on Viente Cinco de Mayo, B.A. and URMSTON GRANGE
Brian

[Paul Pearmain]

Ted Pearmain was my father. Interested to hear from any of his shipmates.

[Jeff Randles]

I served on the Oremina and the Oreosa in 1968 I think it was, we visited Monrovia, Oxelosund (Sweden) Narvik, Mo i Rana (Norway) and some place around the North Cape, I think it was Kirkeness? We always unloaded in Port Talbot, or Workington. I had a girlfriend in Workington and after signing off after one voyage I kissed her goodbye on Workington station, I promised to return, but I never saw her again. I'm 73 now and there is barely a day goes by that I don't think of my Able Seaman days aboard ship.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Welcome aboard Jeff, you're still young yet, so plenty of time to join us oldies and regale s with a few of your tales

P.S. We won't tell the girl in Workington where you are

[j.sabourn]

#122. Jeff you didn’t spend all your time at sea on the ore carriers did you ? JS