The Tube Drivers Strike.

[vic mcclymont]

It actually cost the Government (ie us the taxpayer) to collect and transfer the funds from the employee to the Union. What the Government is suggesting is that the employee sets up a direct debit or other means of transferring Union dues direct to the Unions. The government is offering £6m transitional funds to help the Unions set the up the transfer process. So I don't see how it will cripple the Unions, it will just make the Unions work a little harder to collect the dues.

As for the strike, London Underground have offered £200 per night shift, £1000 a week in addition to the drivers wages for those drivers willing to work night shifts.
The Union states that it doesn't want life style changes to the drivers condition and is demanding a 32 hour week. London Transport has guaranteed that there will be no lifestyle changes and that drivers that don't to work night shifts will not be forced.

[john sutton]

#17 Sour Grapes here methinks,how many on here would refuse that kind of money I'm sure all hands on here would snatch the hand off the person offering this and nobody can deny it.
Regards.
Jim.B.

jim don't see where sour grapes come into it.If I were still working I wouldn't get out of bed for that sort of money but of course I was in that financial industry.
Why is it necessary to make every situation them and us and while we are talking about your precious unions .What happened to our contributions?

[j.sabourn]

#31.... Vic in my earlier days at sea I have recollections of crew signing on having to sign a paper giving permission for their union fees to be deducted from their wages, the shipowner if had refused to deduct the dues could have broken the system at any time. The seamans union in the UK what I saw did have destructive members, and as mate I came across a few of them. As mate and master on a ship you worked for the benefit of the owner, if you did not you would not remain in employment very long. I saw faults on both sides, a union when it gets big always seems to breed the bully boys and this is what the general public see, and is what is used to gain sympathy for the other side. As said about the pay of seamen on standby boats their pay was a quarter of what some would have got on a supply boat, the answer is quite simple the stand by boats were not unionised and everyone just paid what they wanted as knew they had a large number seeking work. The shipowner has no qualms about using cheap labour the same as any other business. Business is business the rest is bullsh*t... JS

[j.sabourn]

Let me give an instance of wages paid, this has nothing to do with unions as in this case are non existant. In 1970 I accepted a job as mate on an old steamer under the Gibralter Registry and owned by a well known shipping magnate in Hong Kong. The master was on 33 pounds daily, the Chief on 32 pounds a day and myself on 31 pounds a day. The Chinese crew were on 28 pounds a month. Some difference eh!!! The chinese were changed out in Hong Kong for Philipino who were a bit cheaper at 27 pounds a month. A British Certificate in those days was a passport to bigger money and was much sought after. Today I doubt very much if this is the case. Have I any regrets for the extreme unfairness of the differentials, not really as these crews were receiving what must have been to them a liveable wage in their own countries. All these illegals residing in Europe must believe they have already arrived at their celestial goal, and its all free. As some people who have sailed under the International Union or whatever they call it, and believe this is the standard wages paid, I beg to differ, I was told by my last owners that I worked for that they paid according to country of origin, and this regardless of whatever one thinks is the way Eastern Owners pay out. When I left the highest wages paid were to those holding DP certs with the experience (Dynamic Positioning) the lowest I would assume by the figures I saw were the Russians followed by the Philipinos, soon however all things going the way they are it will be the Burmese. Let me add for posterity that 18 years later I had risen in financial gain by the sum of 1 pound a day due to the goodness of the British owners and oil Companies. JS

[vic mcclymont]

John, in the past I had money deducted to pay Union dues. Unions are big businesses, awash with cash, so why should the taxpayer subsidies them.
Let the Unions set up their own method of collecting dues.

[Jim Brady]

John, in the past I had money deducted to pay Union dues. Unions are big businesses, awash with cash, so why should the taxpayer subsidies them.
Let the Unions set up their own method of collecting dues.

Vic what do you know about the unions paying 3% or whatever to the employer for collecting their dues for them.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Captain Kong]

I wonder where all the money, all the assets in prime site property in London, around the UK , Europe, Sydney and all around the world, all the Investments of the National Union of Seamen have got to???
Where did all our money go?? Who was responsible?? and who got the money , must be in the Millions of pounds.
Brian
I wonder if our Lord John has any ideas.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Vic what do you know about the unions paying 3% or whatever to the employer for collecting their dues for them.
Regards.
Jim.B.

That would not be the Union paying, as they would be using members money to pay the 3%, so in effect the members are paying to have deductions made from their own wages, or have I got it wrong

[Jim Brady]

Ivan I always believed that you paid your union dues for the union to run the union such as paying the employer to collect the dues.how wrong I have been for thinking that all these years thank you for enlightening me that they are using my money for their expenses the cheek of it.!!!!!!
Regards.
Jim.B.

[j.sabourn]

# 35 Vic.. My knowledge of the inner workings of the seamans union in the uk is very limited. I don't even know if it was a closed shop or what. My dealings were with union delegates demanding such and such so was always careful to make sure I knew all the latest changes to the NMB (National Maritime Year Book). Out here I got used to the way the system out here worked which was different from the UK even though a lot of them spoke with a strong Liverpool accent. Most of the seamen out here were mainly from the UK in any case. Suppose by now it will be their sons or grandsons if they have decided to carry the torch forward. The unions here acted the same as the pool did in the UK, I have somewhere the original pay scales which I got on arrival here in 1991 and if find will stick what I can on here for comparison with the UK scales. Here you had the Guild ( Masters and Mates) The Engineers Union, forget their title, The seamens Union, The Firemans Union, and The catering union. They supplied all crew to the various ship managers or companies. If you were not a member you didn't work. It was a closed shop. If you were permanently employed you paid I think 5 percent of your salary to, and if temporary employed 1 percent, will check this if find 1991 paper. For this you received good payouts on retirement and good conditions whilst working, far too much to go into here. These conditions over the years have been eroded by what I work out from the media, and is probably the cause of the unrest in the maritime world at the moment. However the ABs and Greasers that retired during my time out here were mostly walking away with an average 700,000 dollars. The best of luck to them they paid for it. Even so you still got the odd one who tried to use the system to their own advantage, but not so bad as the UK by all accounts. Masters mates and Engineers on UK ships when I worked on them paid into a retirement fund which also was compulsory and about 5 percent also. The seamen also got out here where the shipowner had to at least match the seamans contributions at the very least, the same as the UK system with the Mates/engineers. The seamans union in the uk should also have paid into something similar, but what I can gather was run by a party of Shylocks if they didn't. Cheers JS