QM2 Man Overboard??

[j.sabourn]

#25... That is very sad John. When I started at sea all ships I was on were dry. then came the bars where one had the occasional dipsomaniac. He usually got sorted by the bar committee if they had one. When on the only ship that carried a few passengers the only really drunks were the passengers. Not saying we didn't drink as did our share, but very rare to the extent you describe. Drinking is not a curse only experienced by the MN but also by many shore workers, seamen during the dry ship days used to go ashore and really let their hair down, those that had any. After a month or two at sea this could be expected and was probably why the owners put drink on the ships in the first place. Even working for the RN they also had their own problems and had their own drying out farms we had one such and we covered for him as was told the third time he would lose his pension rights. The Navy took a different attitude to drink at least they did to what I saw, their attitude was we taught you how to drink so we must be responsible in some way, so had as I said their own places to send such, but third time wasn't lucky for them. Is hard to imagine I suppose to some who left the sea in the 70's, but if you had seen Aberdeen before and after the purge on drink on ships you would of thought they were two different cities. Myself although it was a big inconvenience to me to a couple of times having someone with the DTs to have to tend for 5 weeks or so, you cant judge the rest of the crew as the same. As usual a lot have been crucified for the sins or illnesses of a few. Cheers JS

[John Pruden]

we have seen the demise of the local pubs with the smoking ban and to some drinking and smoking goes hand in hand so it will cost the cruise line a fair amount through the tills on their ships but if you like a smoke and a drink you will likely put the ship in some sort of danger sneaking a drink and smoking where you should not? jp

[j.sabourn]

#26... That means vicars and tarts can apply then, Cappy will be first in line Cheers JS

[j.sabourn]

#32... John that's maybe why so many are going over the wall, they may be employing the old bouncers from the American bar in Lime street who haven't realized they are on a ship, and just turfing them out when they find. JS

[j.sabourn]

#30... For those who haven't seen before the black thing hanging above his baggy crutch is the zip. The other black tube is for blowing himself up, not to be confused with giving himself a blow job. This is a perfect fit as John says and is how it should fit but never did. I cant imagine Brian crawling around his loft exterminating wasps, but there again I can. How can one pull that zip up or down with hands like that, certainly would be even difficult holding a can of ale. As for a fag JP impossible in any case no mouth to put it in. Cheers JS

[Jim Brady]

I sailed from 1955 on the old Empress of Scotland, France, England and Britain as QM and AB and in those day I can honestly say I never saw drunkenness on that scale. A few bevies in the Pig was all, some lads on guitar and singing rather than getting legless. They were from the War days and a little more mature, But I believe a new type of seafarer that came later in the late sixties took advantage of the system,
Cheers
Brian

Brian I was about to answer John Arton in the same vain.By the time the catering crowd finished maybe 9pm they may of had time to gulp down 4 quick pints in the Pig and by all accounts this was watered down so drunkenness was never seen in CPR in my time.I think the Pig closed at 10pm maybe 10-30 latest.When I read John's stories of CPR it is nothing like the company I spent quite a bit of time in then again it was a different era.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Captain Kong]

That is right Jim
I cannot remember anyone who was drunk as JA describes.
I guess it was a different generation in the 70s and 80s.
I think it was more of a Social time after working, then get the head down for the next turn to.
Chjeers
Brian

[Captain Kong]

This from the TELGRAPH..........
.

Harriet Alexander
By Harriet Alexander

5:10PM BST 17 Aug 2015







Crew members on-board the Queen Mary 2, the flagship liner of Cunard cruises, were banned from drinking alcohol after a Chilean chef threw himself overboard in the early hours of Saturday.


Favio Onate Ordenes, 26, had been a member of staff for at least four crossings on the luxurious ship, which sails regularly between Southampton and New York. Described by friends as “friendly and happy,” he had reportedly been drinking before climbing up to the seventh deck.


“He was crying and screaming that he wanted to throw himself off,” said one crew member. “None of his friends believed him or took him seriously.


“He was put to bed and everybody left. Apparently he woke up again and went from his room on deck B all the way to deck seven.


“They all feel very guilty now.”


The crew was startled to wake on Saturday morning to at least four tannoy announcements asking for the chef to report for his shift. When he didn’t, the CCTV footage was checked and at around 10.40am the ship turned around for a search to begin. Passengers on the liner – which has a capacity for 2,620 people, paying up to £4,849 each – were asked to join the search.

Queen Mary II
The liner regularly sails between Southampton and New York Photo: Don Emmert/Getty Images

“Every pair of eyes helps,” announced Captain Kevin Oprey.

But the search was called off on Sunday night, given the freezing temperatures of the seas and the thick fog. The ship continued towards New York, anchoring on Monday in Halifax, the capital of the Canadian province of Nova Scotia.

The crew member said staff believed there had been a drunken fight between Mr Onate and a colleague. The decision was taken to forbid alcohol on the ship for 24 hours.

“Alcohol has been banned for crew members and all ‘deck privileges’ have been taken away,” said another crew member – referring to the system whereby staff are allowed to make use of the passenger facilities.

“It’s just so sad. Everyone is incredibly sombre on board.”

A “spontaneous gathering” was held in one of the lounges on Sunday night, for crew members wanting to mourn him. Four people from the 1,200-strong crew have resigned, the crew member said, and told Cunard they do not wish to reboard the ship once it docks in New York on Wednesday.

A spokesman for Cunard said they could not comment on the alcohol ban or circumstances surrounding Mr Onate’s death, as the investigation was ongoing. On Monday Chilean newspaper El Mercurio reported that Mr Onate’s family were meeting with foreign ministry officials in the capital, Santiago.

“He was always such a happy guy,” his former cabin mate Santiago Gutiérrez, who was not on board, told the paper. “The only thing we know is that his shoes, phone and ID were found in the lift, and he was wandering around barefoot for a while before disappearing.”

Cruise ships have long been known for the wild behaviour of off-duty staff, under the motto: “What happens in the Crew Bar, stays in the Crew Bar,” said Danielle Gauer, a former cruise ship dancer.

She wrote on a blog in 2013: “The crew bar is alive with music and cheap booze, allowing crew members to party and get ‘tanked’ till the early hours of the morning.

“The bartender working in the crew bar typically works on the ship in another capacity during the regular work day, but takes on the responsibility to get his/her fellow crew members liquored up so that they can actually enjoy their time on board the ship.”
.
.
AND THEY CALL THEMSELVES SEAMEN
Brian

[John Arton]

Brian and Jim
I did the last ever season of Liverpool to Montreal crossings on the Canada (70/71?) and I have to regret to tell you that the beautiful ship that she was, was been ruined by Masters afraid to impose correct discipline due to the influx of Union hardcore elements along with the general lowering of standards amongst the crew. There was no way we could ever have allowed the passengers to view the galleys as not only were they a fire hazard with ranges covered in grease and un cleaned but chefs store rooms were left with doors swinging open and their contents spilling all over. We had 1st class waiters who never showered, just washed there face, neck and forearms and then covering themselves in foo foo powder before donning their clean waiters uniforms. Many of the deck crew could not have given a toss about going about there duties correctly but were more interested in skiving off in order to get bevied.
I know that this may disappoint you knowing your histories with the white Empress boats but I can assure you I am not making any of this up. Many an ex. steam engineer who sailed on the Canada or England have said that they had sailed on fully automated steam ships long before automated engine rooms came in as often the time you were meant to be on watch was the time when you could catch up on your kip, just make sure the boiler fires were burning o.k. and sufficient feed water available and you could get your head down for an hour or so as after all the boiler room watch consisted of about 5 guys along with a similar number in the engine room.
There has been one person on this site who has spat venom at C.P. but I thought, in my experience with them, that they almost bent over backwards to improve their crews conditions. The crew bar on the Canada was situated in one of the tween decks that had been converted to a very good standard along with the provision of an exercise room. Although cabins meant that up to around 8 or maybe even 12 had to share a cabin, they were pretty well equipped. The Officers cabins were not too bad but only the very senior officers had there own bathrooms. I recall that my cabin was crowded when there were 3 of us in it which gives you an impression of its size, single bunk, small desk and sofa plus wardrobe for fittings.
Now please do not take this as an affront or slander on your birth and place of residence but the Canada had an all Liverpool crew whereas the England had a Southampton crew and it was always said that the Canada had the most trouble on board with drunkenness etc.
By the early to mid seventies the industry had recognised that alcoholism was a serious occurrence throughout the British MN and the new stricter medical standards brought in at that time attempted to address the issue.
In C.P. if you were diagnosed as an alcoholic, unless you had caused damage to the ship or crew, you were given the choice of attending a alcohol rehabilitation centre at company's expense. I know of at least one guy who had three goes at curing (if that's the correct term to use) his alcohol addiction, each time at companies expense, before he was finally dismissed .
rgds
JA

[vic mcclymont]

Ref. posts #19 and 21.
It was if my memory serves me correctly September 1970 when the incident happened.
We (SA VAAL) had sailed from Cape Town Homeward bound with a full complement of 720 passengers.
Out of the passenger there were two separate groups of male passengers; one group in particular was made of five males. The other was a single male.
The single male received a Dear John telegram as soon as the radio office cleared Cape Town Harbour. He was no problem kept himself to himself, he was usually p***ed out of his mind. He refused to sleep in his cabin. He found a quite spot on deck where he slept, his cabin steward would check on him in the morning.
The other group were the most obnoxious South Africans (sorry Doc.) that you could meet; they were disruptive and caused nothing but trouble.
Typical incidents were having a drinking competition and running amongst passenger, a young deck Cadet requested that they stop, he was threatened with a trip overboard.
On another occasion the Bandsmen after their nights entertainment, heading to their cabins on D deck aft, saw smoke coming from a cabin, they grabbed an extinguisher entered the cabin and put the fire out. The S.A passengers had set the cabin on fire (or tried to) the band put the small fire out. The band were threatened. The crew heard of the threat and warned the passengers off, otherwise suffer severe consequences.
Another incident late at night saw the same idiots climbing the aft Samson Posts and diving into the swimming pool. The 3.O on deck patrol told them to stop, again he was threatened and it may have happened except a burly Bosun came from behind them. He had a chipping hammer in his hand and threatened each of them with a severe does trouble.
Anyway the ship arrived las Palmas early evening on the Thursday, for a four hour stop over, mainly to bunker.
Passengers took the advantage of some shore time.
The following morning as per usual the passenger wasn’t in his cabin and neither was in his usual position on deck.
The Steward reported that he was missing, checks showed that he had gone ashore and returned, not p***ed.
The five South Africans had gone a shore and returned noisily.
After a search of the ship it was determined that he was not on board and that the ship would be turned around and retrace its steps.
By this time it was estimated that the passenger was in the water for some ten hours or more. The B.O.T rules at that time were a maximum time of six hours could be spent searching for anyone overboard.
The six hours search time was up and it was decided that the search would be extended until Las Palmas was spotted on the Radar. More or less simultaneously as L.P was spotted the Bow lookouts shouted man over board.
The ship at this time was steaming at 22.5 knots.
As stated earlier Alarms sounded and the ship was turned into a 180 degree arc and stopped safely about 100 yards from him.
A lifeboat was lowered passenger rescued; he suffered from severe sunburn to his back and shoulders.
They reckoned he was very lucky as the area was unusually warm and there were no sharks about.
Once on board he was confined to the hospital, with two seamen guarding the door twenty fours a day.
One of the South Africans was heard shouting is there a lawyer on board.
The ship docked a day late in Southampton.
During the lay over period the other five were summoned to Cayzer House, given the return portion of their refunded and banned from sailing on B&C or Safmarine ships.
No one could prove if the single passenger was thrown over, and he wouldn’t say.
Estimated time in the water- at least sixteen hours.
Regards
vic