British MN Lapel Pin looking to find source to buy from or get from

[Keith at Tregenna]

Sorry Keith where does this fit in with what we are discussing, and what does 'prefer this version' mean when we are discussing badges issued during WWII and National service. Facts are facts.

Think a few new threads are worth opening in a forum to discuss all and more !

Anything I have posted in reply are just what I have discovered. Would be good to know more ?

[Keith at Tregenna]

Don't know whether or not you know the history of the Silver Badge but it was issued because so many people, especially women spat on MN personnel in civilian clothes and called them cowards or gave them white feathers.

I HOPE WE CAN WORK TOGETER ON THIS: A proper answer is required; the history of the Silver Badge but it was issued because so many people, especially women spat on MN personnel in civilian clothes and called them cowards or gave them white feathers. This in history had happened, mainly WW1 but, in essence was a very SMALL PART IN A TALE THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD. HAVE NOT DONE SO BUT, WILL LOOK FOR FACTS. K

[Ivan Cloherty]

I HOPE WE CAN WORK TOGETER ON THIS: A proper answer is required; the history of the Silver Badge but it was issued because so many people, especially women spat on MN personnel in civilian clothes and called them cowards or gave them white feathers. This in history had happened, mainly WW1 but, in essence was a very SMALL PART IN A TALE THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD. HAVE NOT DONE SO BUT, WILL LOOK FOR FACTS. K

Keith it happened also in WWII to my father and his mates mainly because of his Irish accent, this was a man who left the sea in 1939 volunteered (Irish were not called up) for the Army, spent two years in the Army, was at Dunkirk, rejoined the Merchant Navy end 1941 as authorities wanted experienced seamen as so many had been lost in 1940 and 1941 went through rest of the war in the MN and as he had been in the Army he went on gunnery courses and was the deputed gunnery officer (he was bosun). So my friend if you want facts you now have them, NOT EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS APPEARS IN PRINT OR WIKIPEDIA

[Keith at Tregenna]

I am not disputing anything, trying to look at the bigger picture and looking at finding out more, WW2 thus far seems to offer a resurgence and some cases and not enough to be behind the King approving the MN Silver badge. I feel the MN in the King's esteem earned much in an own right. I can entertain, some women were or could be daft then but, not enough to warrant the earned accolades. As said it is a forum. Discuss: K.

In August 1914, at the start of the First World War, Admiral Charles Fitzgerald founded the Order of the White Feather with support from the prominent author Mrs Humphrey Ward. The organization aimed to shame men into enlisting in the British army by persuading women to present them with a white feather if they were not wearing a uniform.

This was joined by some prominent feminists and suffragettes of the time, such as Emmeline Pankhurst and her daughter Christabel. They, in addition to handing out the feathers, also lobbied to institute an involuntary universal draft, which included those who lacked votes due to being too young or not owning property.

While the true effectiveness of the campaign is impossible to judge, it did spread throughout several other nations in the Empire. In Britain it started to cause problems for the government when public servants and men in essential occupations came under pressure to enlist. This prompted the Home Secretary, Reginald McKenna, to issue employees in state industries with lapel badges reading "King and Country" to indicate that they too were serving the war effort. Likewise, the Silver War Badge, given to service personnel who had been honourably discharged due to wounds or sickness, was first issued in September 1916 to prevent veterans from being challenged for not wearing uniform. Anecdotes from the period indicates that the campaign was not popular amongst soldiers - not least because soldiers who were home on leave could find themselves presented with the feathers. Much more of this took place during WW1. The WW2 Merchant Navy faired better.

.

[Ian Malcolm]

During WWII, the silver badge was issued to all who joined the MN and I still have mine. Also during the War, servicemen paid a reduced entrance charge to cinemas and theatres in the United States. Those of us who were officers wore our uniforms to take advantage of this, but I've often wondered if the badge did the same trick for ratings who had no uniform.

Here is an extract from my Kindle book, DANGEROUS VOYAGING, which, although nothing to do with badges, may be of interest.

"In Convoy OB.288, therefore, the boys who sparked off this investigation got a bonus of £2.10/- for risking their young lives in the war-torn Atlantic: a fact which reflects badly on successive British Governments which have expressed neither remorse nor shame. The same, however, cannot be said of the Government of Canada, although it took years of pressure for them to make some recompense. On 2 February, 2000, it announced a $50 million tax-free package for Canadian Merchant Navy Veterans (and surviving spouses) who served in the First and Second World Wars and the Korean War.
Maximum payments for ‘War-related Service’ could be: more than 24 months - $20,000; between 6 and 24 months - $10,000; and between 1 and 6 months, or less than 1 month if captured, killed or disabled - $5,000. An additional 20% to be paid to a seaman who had been a prisoner of war.
When the Canadian announcement was made, there was a deafening silence on this side of the Atlantic."

[Ivan Cloherty]

. The ww2 merchant navy faired better.

.

pardon !!

[Keith at Tregenna]

Anything I have posted is not a definite answer to the creation of the MN Silver Badge.

I would like to think that the King of the day held the MN in a high esteem and was an honour then.

The WW1 SWB was not simply an honour; it also served a practical purpose. At the time, men of military age who were not obviously in the service were sometimes accosted or insulted by civilians presenting them with white feathers — a symbol of cowardice — for shirking their patriotic duty. The badge served as an outward symbol that the wearer’s duty to country had been honorably fulfilled.

The much later MN Silver Badge hopefully, was an honour.

When the UK entered the Second World War in September 1939 George VI issued this message:

In these anxious days I would like to express to all Officers and Men and in The British Merchant Navy and The British Fishing Fleets my confidence in their unfailing determination to play their vital part in defence. To each one I would say: Yours is a task no less essential to my people's experience than that allotted to the Navy, Army and Air Force. Upon you the Nation depends for much of its foodstuffs and raw materials and for the transport of its troops overseas. You have a long and glorious history, and I am proud to bear the title "Master of the Merchant Navy and Fishing Fleets". I know that you will carry out your duties with resolution and with fortitude, and that high chivalrous traditions of your calling are safe in your hands. God keep you and prosper you in your great task.

K.


.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Keith it happened also in WWII to my father and his mates mainly because of his Irish accent, this was a man who left the sea in 1939 volunteered (Irish were not called up) for the Army, spent two years in the Army, was at Dunkirk, rejoined the Merchant Navy end 1941 as authorities wanted experienced seamen as so many had been lost in 1940 and 1941 went through rest of the war in the MN and as he had been in the Army he went on gunnery courses and was the deputed gunnery officer (he was bosun). So my friend if you want facts you now have them, NOT EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS APPEARS IN PRINT OR WIKIPEDIA

Ivan, I HAVE BEEN OUT ALL DAY DOING OTHER THINGS.

You, put over that your statements are correct and I appear to be attacking them.

Not so, early on I attempted to discover more on origins of the MN Silver badge, my findings then were close to your thoughts.

A long time later, my thoughts on all have changed, that is all.

I know that some White Feather instances occurred WW2 but, insufficient to cause the creation of the badge in it's own right.

I do not have all the answers hence, asked for more to discuss.

“All I had was a Merchant Navy badge and people would look at you. It was the same for my father after he was gassed on the Somme: when he came back to England he came home and people stuck a white feather on him, because he was in civilian clothes, even though he had been a sharp shooter on the frontline, and had been gassed on the Somme. This was the sort of thing the Merchant Navy would get. People didn’t understand: they didn’t know what the badge meant, they just saw a boy of 17 not in uniform and they thought why isn’t he in the services.”


The treatment the Merchant Navy got from the Armed Forces during the landings, whilst they were all working alongside each other, was not much better.

“When we were operating in the harbour we were doing a job and that was accepted. But when we went ashore it was different. We were seen as civilians, we were not even permitted to use the NAFI canteen. This has forever stuck in my mind, here we were doing the same jobs, and encountering the same risks as servicemen but we couldn’t partake in a cup of tea with them. It niggles at me.

We near a time to further remember, it may further do justice to find more facts and honour them. I am certain there is more to find and tell of and for them.

K.

Earlier posts for info: Six years ago. http://www.merchant-navy.net/forum/f...t=silver+badge

[Captain Kong]

This is on E-BAY

WW2-Merchant-Navy-Seaman-039-s-MN-On-War-Service-Lapel-Badge. £28

Details about WW2 Merchant Navy Seaman's MN On War Service Lapel Badge

[Ivan Cloherty]

This is on E-BAY

WW2-Merchant-Navy-Seaman-039-s-MN-On-War-Service-Lapel-Badge. £28

Details about WW2 Merchant Navy Seaman's MN On War Service Lapel Badge

That looks like the real MacCoy with the half moon pin at the back. Needs a bit of silvo on it. Fancy selling memories for £28, hope one of our members buys it to keep it in our MN family. I already have mine