ex M.N. Captains, Mates, & Engineers

[Colin Pook]

This question only came to light a few days ago. m.v. Parima, (Royal Mail), sailed from Houston, fully loaded with grain for Aberdeen and Manchester. A few days into the journey we were put onto water rationing. which lasted for several days. For the outbound voyage from London to La Guaira there was no rationing, so why on the return voyage did this occur? One that knows all,(an ex Master) explained that when the ship loaded her cargo of grain she loaded more than she was allowed. To compensate, and to achieve the legal draught for W.N.A. we took less fresh water. The idea of this, so I was informed, enabled the ship to carry more cargo, the excess being paid to the 'officers involved' at the discharge port. We, the humble deck squad had no inkling of what was going on, and assumed that we were simply short of fresh water.
Now, in my innocence, I can only assume that more than the Cap'n. was involved in turning off the water, i.e. the Ch. Eng, and presumably the Mate as well, so all three were holding out their hands when the cargo was discharged.
Question.
Who would have paid them?
Why wasn't the whole crew involved?
Was this legal? and was Royal Mail aware of what was going on?
And is this practise still going on aboard ships today?
Perhaps somebody could enlighten me on whether this happened, or was I having the urine extracted?
Would appreciate any suggestions
Colin

[Ivan Cloherty]

........
Perhaps somebody could enlighten me on whether this happened..........

Colin

It may well have been that the ship was overloaded for her WNA marks (perhaps not deliberatley, but see later)) and fresh water was not taken on board before sailing to compensate for this, and this would have entailed a degree of water rationing to ensure adequate for culinary purposes.

It is highly improbable that the Master, Mate or Chief Engineer received any type of bonus/payment for ensuring the vessel carried a few tons extra of cargo, as the amount of tonnage involved could be measured in hundreds or even less than that. I cannot remember the exact deadweight of the Parima but her TPI (tons per inch) immersion would probably have been in the 50/60 TPI region and the difference between her Winter and Winter North Atlantic marks probably about 4 inches, so a great deal of cargo was not involved. So if the there was any payment made it would be very miniscule as the freight rates on grain are not the best in the world.

The more likely explanation is that the Master sacrificed fresh water as he may have had a slack hold of grain and decided that he would rather have more grain in the feeder bins of the slack hold so that that hold would not experience a free surface effect thus causing a list in the bad weather that was to be expected in the North Atlantic at that time of year. He rightly making a decision that a little discomfort was preferable to foundering due to a free surface effect that would cause a list that the vessel would not be able to recover from. Thus ensuring the safety of his crew and vessel, no Master is going to put his ship, his certificate, his life and the lives of others at risk for the sake of a few bob

Others may come up with other scenarios.

[Jim Brady]

Nothing unusual I dont think about taking less water because of being overloaded.I recall on the Cotopaxi such a thing happening,left Callao right on the line made for St.Thomas,Virgin Islands,princiiple being by the time we arrived there we would've burnt off tons of oil which we could replace with water.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Capt Bill Davies]

Colin,

I would suggest that Ivan has covered this quite well.
However, it was not uncommon to load to the correct marks, vacate the berth and proceed to anchor and then load fresh water from a barge.

Brgds

Bill

[Peter F Chard]

I was a junior engineer on the MV '' SOMALI '' in 1957. We were chartered to carry bulk fertilizer from Antwerp to Shanghai, the deal was 15 knots max speed and non stop apart from bunkers and the Suez canal transit. The Antwerp pilot refused to take the ship out because we were overloaded so the Old Man ordered fresh water to be pumped overboard until we were back to our marks. Fresh water was the Chippies job and he told the skipper that once back to our marks we would have enough water to get us to Port Said. It turned out that the chippie was not very good at maths because we ran out of water two days out of Antwerp, still seven days away from Port Said. The result was that the skipper had to issue free beer to all on board, two bottles per man per day but six bottles per day for engine room personnel. The engine room ratings and the deck crew were all Moslem and did not drink alcohol so what did they drink ? I have never been able to work that one out ! We then started to run out of beer so we called in to Malta and took on water from a barge. Regards Peter F Chard NZ.

[j.sabourn]

Can not see the problem arising today with most ships making their own fresh water. Going back to the time of vessels not being so equipped fresh water was, as was the food rationed if needs be as per the BOT agreement and was posted up somewhere on vessel. It was on rare occassions necessary to ration as such maybe due to various situations. On loading a deadweight cargo every ton on vessel was scrutinised as to amount of cargo to be carried, usually the Charter Party stipulated the amount of cargo which had to be carried otherwise there were maybe clauses in the same fining vessel as such as not complying to the agreement. I find it hard to believe that anyone would go to such extremes intentionally to deprive the crew of water. Or it may be a case of the water in a port being not being fit for human consumption causing reason for not taken and therefore causing a shortage. There could be numerous reasons. Regards John Sabourn

[happy daze john in oz]

Interesting point about modern ships makeing their own water. this is true but they still take on fresh water in many ports to top up the levels.

[robpage]

Interesting point about modern ships makeing their own water. this is true but they still take on fresh water in many ports to top up the levels.

having done two seven month voyages on a ship that never went alongside and made all it's own water , it is great for washing , awful for drinking , flat and bland . the SA Vaal has huge evaporator capacity and a mineralised to add some taste back into the drinking water . Although water taken in some ports could be pretty awful too .Water taken on here in Portsmouth used to fur everything it touched due to its hardness

[Colin Pook]

My thanks to
Ivan
Jim
Capn Bill
Peter
J
Rob
Happy Daze
You seemed to have solved my query very well. It seems that my 'one that knows all' was probable extracting the you know what!
Regards to all
Colin.

[Ivan Cloherty]

My thanks .....You seemed to have solved my query very well.....

Colin glad we could help.

Perhaps he wasn't extracting the urine. What I did find at sea when I was a very very young man when I queried something the answer was "do it that way, it's always been done that way" because the person you asked couldn't be bothered, or was too lazy to give you a proper explanation. They probably forgot that young eyes and brains see something different to the established way. I found this attitude throughout my apprenticeship and it made me resolve never to take that attitude with young cadets, JOS's or deckboys when I was in that exalted position of giving orders, always explaining why something had to be done a certain way unless they could explain why it should be done their way, sometimes their way was better or more expeditious, which always earned a "Well we'll do it your way" which I knew meant more to them than anything else, and you always got jobs done willingly rather than grudginly.

Others had the attitude that if they were asked something by a lower rank or from a non deck department it was a case of "I'll tell them anything, because if I tell them the real reason they will not understand anyway" an attitude I found deplorable. If a man has an interest then give him an explanation you never know when it might benefit you.

I sailed with a young Sparks once, our only navigation aids were the magnetic compass, a D/F and a suspect echo sounder, once Sparks had taken the bearings he wanted to know how we used them, when shown he did his damdest to ensure that he got as many and as accurate bearings as he could, he became interested in the whole navigation process and became good at it, sights included. This man though not a deck officer would have been an invaluable asset had he ended up in a lifeboat situation with no navigating officers.

We all are never too old to learn, as is evidenced by this site, because we are all learning about others' jobs and experiences all the time