Hello

[JA White]

Hello all,

Thank you for letting me join this group.
I’m not a Merchant seaman, but had a relative who was and whom I would like to try and find some information about.
It’s a very long shot, but here goes.

The relative I’m try to trace is my great grandfather.
His name was Lionel Croudson.
He was born in January 1894 in Bradford, Yorkshire.
He gained his Certificate of Competency as Master of a Foreign going Ship on the 27th July 1917.
He was lost at sea in 1925 along with all onboard.
My mother has tried to find any information about the ship he was aboard and what happened. We’ve never been able to find the ships name or exactly where it was lost. We think it was around the Bosphorus, Black Sea but not 100% sure.
We’ve tried Lloyds of London and Ancestry, but no joy.
I appreciate any help, info.
Best Regards,
John.

31936_1831109333_0090-00486.jpg

[Doc Vernon]

Hello JA
Thank you for posting your Question here.
I have searched the Deaths at Sea Register at FMP, but there is no one of this name on the lst, in fact there are only two such Surnames listed and are both Royal Navy , but dates are of course different.

That is strange as most all Deaths at Sae persons are recorded, so not sure as to why this one is not??

Have you yet tried to contact the Southampton Archives (Maritime Division) as they hold many Original Records, there may just be a chance that they may have something there?

Strange case!
All the best
Cheers

Not much help i know but just for interest sake

1894B1-C-0129 Croudson.jpg

[Roger Millard]

Hello all,

Thank you for letting me join this group.
I’m not a Merchant seaman, but had a relative who was and whom I would like to try and find some information about.
It’s a very long shot, but here goes.

The relative I’m try to trace is my great grandfather.
His name was Lionel Croudson.
He was born in January 1894 in Bradford, Yorkshire.
He gained his Certificate of Competency as Master of a Foreign going Ship on the 27th July 1917.
He was lost at sea in 1925 along with all onboard.
My mother has tried to find any information about the ship he was aboard and what happened. We’ve never been able to find the ships name or exactly where it was lost. We think it was around the Bosphorus, Black Sea but not 100% sure.
We’ve tried Lloyds of London and Ancestry, but no joy.
I appreciate any help, info.
Best Regards,
John.

31936_1831109333_0090-00486.jpg

Hello John. Wicipedia has a record of ship losses in 1925 one of interest could be the MV Kilelmi foundered in the Bosporus with the loss of 44 of 49 lives. although a long shot he may have worked for a foreign shipping company.Happy researching R.

[JA White]

Hello Doc,
Thank you very much for your quick reply and also for searching the Deaths at Sea Register.
Thanks also for the advice for the Southampton Archives, I will contact them and see if they can shed any light.
Thanks again,
Regards,
John.

[Doc Vernon]

Hello again JA
Not sure if the following site would have a more in depth record system of Deaths at Sea, but you could Email them i guess and ask how to go about applying for info on your Man.
Cheers

Events recorded in England and Wales and overseas - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Scroll down to Marine Records , to show you that they do hold such.
Cheers

MORE STRANGE THAT HIS NAME IS NOT APPEARING ON THE MASTERS LISTS??

Crew List Index Project

[Doc Vernon]

Lastly , there are these Links which have the Competency Certificate Numbers by Years Issued, so it will take some researching to find your Man.
As the dates overlap one does not really know which one would hold his Details. Also i am not sure as to what details besides what you already have may be within the Record?
Cheers

Certificate Numbers 001000-006499 | The National Archives

Certificate Numbers 006500-0010999 | The National Archives

Certificate Numbers 0011000-0015999 | The National Archives

I would have thought that their would have been a Number on that Certificate!??
JS May know !


CHART: Masters’ and Mates’ Certificates

Type	Trade	Dates	Class
Index to registers	Home and Foreign	1845-1894	BT 127
Competency	Foreign	1845-1906	BT 122
Competency Steamships	Foreign	1881-1921	BT 123
Service	Foreign	1850-1888	BT 124
Competency	Home	1854-1921	BT 125
Service	Home	1854-1888	BT 126
Competency	Colonial	1870-1921	BT 128
Alpha register of Masters	All	1845-1854	BT 115

[j.sabourn]

#3 others on site may know otherwise ? But the replica #3 is that not a square Rigged certificate ? The certificates most site members have word for word and layout is almost the same, but in place of Ship read steamship and signed Ministry of transport. If it is shows square rigged certificates were the rage later than I suspected. JS
A ship in 1918 would have been a 3 or 4 masted vessel square rigged on at least 3. All the foreign certs. I have just mention master of any vessel of any tonnage. But believe the old
BOT were more discriminate in their descriptions. Today’s certs. bear no resemblance to the old ones upto about 1980 ish. However a square rigged cert. covered power driven vessels, but a steam or motor ship did not cover a sailing vessel . Cheers JS.
The bottom right hand corner of the deputy secretary of the ministry of transport is R.C. Chilver anyone have his signature. A charming man no doubt. JS
Registered at the office of the Registrar General of Shipping And Seamen.

[j.sabourn]

A small additive to #7 . If you ever get in a discussion with a fisherman about the wording on the old certificates he will tell you if he is a Fishing Skipper ( Full ) that he could take the Queen Mary away, as states he can take away a fishing vessel, all they had to do was put fishing gear on it. My reply would be try it and see what happens. Similar I would imagine to a FG Tugmaster. JS