Hi All, Just Joined! Can anyone please help with my Grandpa’s Merchant Navy history

[Greig Wilkie]

Hi there, a brand new member!
I am currently researching my Grandpa’s history, especially his Merchant Naval years for my mum and uncle. My grandpa sadly passed when I was only 5.
My Grandpa’s details are;
DAVID THOMSON WEIR bn. 24/08/1905
Born in Dennistoun, Glasgow.
His Service of Discharge number is R39988.
His start and finish dates are unknown.
I have his continuous service of discharge book. The book states year of birth 1904, he obviously lied about his age to get in.
The book details only one ship, SS Athenia, 146330. The voyages recorded are between March and July 1928.
Destinations from Glasgow-New York and to Montreal. (Anchor-Donaldson line).
At that time he was an asst steward.
He later qualified as an engineer, apparently 2nd or 3rd and had sailed to other ports including Cape Town and Buenos Aires. There is no information regarding any other ships or voyages.
I have located him on some passenger lists from the Athenia via Ancestry and TNA at Kew.
I have located a CR1 and CR2 from Find my past. Only the Athenia is listed.
Southampton Archives confirmed the same information.They will scan and forward copies.
I also emailed Maritime Archives, Canada- also no trace even for the Athenia.
Likewise CLIP.
I have emailed Kew re BT 352 and The National Maritime museum re accessing engineer certificates RSS/ENG 5 and 6.
I understand that a CR 10 may have his service details including other ship names and numbers.I have been unable to find this.
On conclusion of his Merchant Naval service, he then became an aeronautical engineer with Rolls Royce Hillington, building the Merlin engine during the entirety of ww2.
I would be forever grateful if someone could assist with providing any assistance or information.
Kind regards,
Greig Weir Wilkie.

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Greig
Thank you for the post and questions.
So seeing that you have most of his details, and Cards ie CR1 and CR2 etc, then as you say if only one ships so far is shown, then the only other Documents that would have his full record would be his CR10, which if still survives may be at the NA in Kew! But more likely at So,ton.
As you have already applied for that, i am sure you will receive the details in time, but do let us know how it goes!
As i recall the CR10 Docs should be help at Southampton!

There is the possibility is held in the Supplementary Index at Kew , Surnames A to W BT364/2 1921 to 1941 Combined Numerical Index ( CR1,CR2 AND CR10 Series ) ??

Supplementary index: surnames A to W (fiches 2532 to 2536) | The National Archives


Cheers

PS NB:

• If a seaman continued to serve after 1941 his records have usually been transferred to the next register (the 5th Register of Merchant Seamen) which is held at the National Archives, Kew

Central index of Merchant Seamen (southampton.gov.uk)


Just one thing Greig, You say you have his Discharge Book!?? Surely that would have all the info you need, as it should most assuredly all his Ships !
Cheers

This is what you have so far! Plus a wee bit more!

Weir D T.JPG

Could he have been with the COMNO Section at all??
Another possibility
Cheers

Watkins, A E - Wells, W J. (Described at item level) | The National Archives

[j.sabourn]

#1 Grieg just for you and anyone else similar looking for names of the past during the war years, it might be useful to know that Anchor Line was a consortium of different owners and one of the leading ones was Walter Runcimans of Newcastle on Tyne. About 1964 they moved up to Scotland and became Runcimans Shipping . During my 11 years with them in Newcastle they kept a huge tome hand written with all the names of their crew members lost through enemy action. If he ever sailed on any ships belonging to Anchor line or Runcimans it might be worthwhile to phone them or even pay Them a visit to see if they still have , they are on your doorstep so to speak. Cheers JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Grieg.
Going by what I have read here I agree with Vernon, if you have his discharge book it should list all his ships on it. I have my Dads Discharge book from the first World War and his ships are listed. It looks like your Grandad was on only one ship the Athenia, there were many blokes who only sailed on one ship then unfortunately found they didn't take to the sea.
Des

[Greig Wilkie]

Hi Des, many thanks for your quick response. I have his discharge book and if definitely only has one ship detailed within. My mum and uncle both tell me he was at sea for several years, prior to his role at Rolls Royce. I’ll continue to search as per your colleagues advice. Thanks again Greig.

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Hi Doc, that’s great, thanks very much for all your advice. I’ll double check with the sources you have suggested.
Kind regards
Greig

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Hi there, thanks a lot for your feedback and advice.
Greig

[Doc Vernon]

Hi Des, many thanks for your quick response. I have his discharge book and if definitely only has one ship detailed within. My mum and uncle both tell me he was at sea for several years, prior to his role at Rolls Royce. I’ll continue to search as per your colleagues advice. Thanks again Greig.

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Hi Doc, that’s great, thanks very much for all your advice. I’ll double check with the sources you have suggested.
Kind regards
Greig

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Hi there, thanks a lot for your feedback and advice.
Greig

Very strange that about only one Ship in his Book Greig, if as you say he was on a few others, and if he was in Service for a couple of Years ??I am sure that his CR10 should have any other Ships etc.
But also remember that if he did serve after 1941 then his Documents would be in a CRS10 at the National Archives.
Cheers

Another 2 Links to look at

Welborn F to Wells Douglas Peter | The National Archives

Watt A to Williams William Ernest | The National Archives

[Greig Wilkie]

Thanks for this Doc, very helpful information, a trip down to Kew is the way forward.

Ps. Just some quick questions, if he lost his service of discharge book and it was replaced, would previous ships etc be recorded only in his CR10? And is his CR 10 the only record of his entire merchant navy service?
Thanks again
Greig

[Doc Vernon]

Hi Greig
I am not 100% sure as if all his Ships would have been transferred to a new Book, possibly yes, but i dont know!
As for a CR10 or a CRS10 , well they are the only Series of Documents that i know of which carry all a Seamans Service Records!

So thats it Greig!
Hope that you will be able to get all that you want from the Archives.

PS A Seaman's Pouch is just the Basic Document that will hold a wee bit of info!
Although that said, there are many cases that if one was at Sea for only a short time, then the Seamans Pouch could also hold all his info!
Cheers

[j.sabourn]

When a new book was issued it is usually clear of all ships previous . When the new dis A. Books were brought in this was also the case. JS. I have 3 books and when the third one was full I went back to the first book with spaces to keep a personal record of all British Ships I was on this was for my own convenience for a record of seatime also. All 3 books are now full but have little bearing of all the ships was on , previously yonks ago it was illegal according to the BSF to have a foreign discharge in a British Book and all the years that I was master I stood by these now irrevelent rules. That was the reason of my run in when trying to get a passport in Trinidad where the stupid clerk would not hand over my new passport unless the Liberian ship was on was put in the book and I explained to him the facts of life before the
Skirmish. JS. This was in 1967. JS

[j.sabourn]

Ref. To Griegs post the one ship in the Dis A book. What are the dates of engagement and release ? Between March and July is 4 months maximum and insufficient seatime for any cert. as regards engine room or deck on a British ship. JS….
Sorry forgot a Cooks certificate required 1 weeks seatime. I found that out in 1953 where the cook was an ex army cook , however his weeks seatime caused no problems as most chief stewards were ex cooks. JS