Signing On

[Cliff Cocker]

Yes, I was fortunate enough to obtain one of the old style apprenticeships and still have my much treasured indentures which had the penalty of my parents having to pay my employer if I did not complete my apprenticeship, in fact missed days without authority had to be made up at the end of the apprenticeship. No guarantee of a job at the end of it, you were then encouraged to become what was known as a "journeyman"
I went to sea with BTC on the "British Holly" as described in my previous message.
After tankers I went tramping with J&C Harrison on the mv Harpalion, joy of joys, I was paid overtime for any hours over 56, the Port Line, followed by GSNC followed by the Danube Tugs on the Thames towing mud hoppers and servicing dredgers. 14 years ashore whilst family were growing up, then Bank Line until redundancy.

[Jim Brady]

Ivan,yes I remember the likes of the Salinas where you served your time in PSNC.Once through the canal the midi's,cadets apprentices what ever you wish to call them hardly seen the saloon.I recall them sitting on the deck in the alleyway outside the pantry eating their meals,as you say hours didn't mean a thing you were there for the duration.The company my son served his time with were very good,a good old Liverpool based company who kept me informed exactly what was going on.Did you old timers do sandwich courses were you were at college for about six months all expenses paid?
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Keith at Tregenna]

RE: John's post - Debit/Credit:

Ashore a business would also need to look at both fixed and variable costs, depreciation, insurance and all but large costs that depreciate are generally written off pos monthly, six monthly. annually etc. Hence a huge cost item, would be valued on the books and as an asset initially at full cost until such a time it became valueless. Then it would be repaired rather than replaced until it just died. From what I recall, repair as opposed to renewal attracted no tax.

A large item would also be saved for from day one with a percentage of the expected future price of replacement being set aside and attracting interest over a time period. Without getting further detailed, a business would attempt to rather than face a huge bill for replacement of say a lift / elevator in the future would ensure it would be funded.

The relevance is that this is called a sinking fund and wonder if this commenced from all things nautical to cover in a similar way all things shipping ? Ships themselves were expensive and if written of slowly asset wise, possibly accountants would also set aside monies for an expected in time replacement ?

Just wondered.

K.

[robpage]

I did a sandwich course , Two years at College , wages and expenses paid , fourteen months at sea , eleven months in college and six months at sea , took four and a half years , starting salary ( 7.5 p ) 2/- ( 10p ) or 2/6 (12.5 p ) for Some indescribable crap , Newcastle Exhibition , or Younger s Best Scotch , a mince beef Pie was 2/- ( 10p) so a pie and a pint could be under 20 p , we negotiated a £1.50 a week reduction off the landlady for not having lunch which made 2 pints and apie the average lunch . The pies came in hot from a local bakery

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ivan,yes I remember the likes of the Salinas where you served your time in PSNC.Once through the canal the midi's,cadets apprentices what ever you wish to call them hardly seen the saloon.I recall them sitting on the deck in the alleyway outside the pantry eating their meals,as you say hours didn't mean a thing you were there for the duration.
Jim.B.

Oh! Jim you are a one !! PSNC pay expenses !! it was a bloody job getting a rail voucher out of them, they hated it when they couldn't send you to another ship across the dock and had to send you home on leave instead.

Did you old timers do sandwich courses when you were at college for about six months all expenses paid?

No chance of that Jim, the only sandwich courses we got is when we used to sneak in the passenger alleyway at night and take the sandwiches they hadn't eaten off the trays that they left outside their cabins for the steward to collect on his rounds

But then again being treated like sh*t for nearly four years meant you could take most things in your stride in later years, so suppose it had its benefits. Was reading in 'SeaBreezes' recently about an apprentice in the 50's who stated that the stewards woke them in the morning with a cup of tea and also brought their tea at Smokos' and I thought that would have been nice, but then on reflection thought perhaps it may have given them ideas above their station so early in life. Can't say it did me any lasting harm but it was hard at the time and no allowance was made for it being your first trip at 16 or your last (at 20) as an apprentice you were all entitled to the same amount of sh*te and expected to endure without complaint and who the hell would you complain to. But solace in the arms (and legs) of those lovely South American ladies was compensation indeed

[happy daze john in oz]

I did a sandwich course , Two years at College , wages and expenses paid , fourteen months at sea , eleven months in college and six months at sea , took four and a half years , starting salary ( 7.5 p ) 2/- ( 10p ) or 2/6 (12.5 p ) for Some indescribable crap , Newcastle Exhibition , or Younger s Best Scotch , a mince beef Pie was 2/- ( 10p) so a pie and a pint could be under 20 p , we negotiated a £1.50 a week reduction off the landlady for not having lunch which made 2 pints and apie the average lunch . The pies came in hot from a local bakery

Sandwich courses were OK as long as you got the butter on the right side of the bread.

[j.sabourn]

I sometimes wonder how some of those in title finished up. Although not right through the Industry did have the occassional one who really did think he was on his Daddys yacht, they usually did one trip and then took their hopefully tanned bodies elsewhere to annoy others. There is no way can I see the few such as I sailed with, ever lasting past the days of the start of communal messing. I should imagine they were however well adapted to put an impressive show on to who ever employed them elsewere in their working life. ( would have made good politicians) Every industry has them, however they stuck out like a sore thumb at sea. John Sabourn

[j.sabourn]

Cliff, Know its a long shot, as Bank Line had many ships. However did you ever sail with a Norman Hutchinson, he would I believe have been 2nd. Eng. sailing on a Dispensation. Cheers John Sabourn

[j.sabourn]

Was usually a pie and a pint the same as most. Had 12 weeks dole for 2 1 and Master. No such luxurys. If couldnt do it then back to sea again for what sometimes were vey extended periods. If failed in the orals too badly some were giving seatime in any case and told to come back in 6 months or whatever the examiner considered appropriate. John Sabourn PS If you were a company servant and on A articles, believe the owners were obliged to give you either 2 or 3 months paid ticket leave. John Sabourn

[John Arton]

I served my time in the CPR. Joined the company Tuesday, sailed Thursday. No pre sea training, straight into tank cleaning, chipping and painting, overhauling flash back arrestor's in tank vents, greasing winches etc. Bridge work---polishing the magnetic compass binnacle every day. Only bridge time on 2nd ship on the North Atlantic run. 3 years sea time and up to Shields for 2nd mates, failed. Back to sea and then back to Shields to re-take 2nd mates-passed. Always on pay, C.P. were good like that. My mate was a Shell apprentice and his indentures ran out in the August. He had got a referral in July and was due to take his re-sit in Oct. So as he was getting no wages he signed on the dole and started getting some cash. After 3 to 4 weeks his parents got a knock on their door where there was a guy from the social who was there to arrest my mate for fraud!!!! Apparently seamen were not allowed to sign on the dole, instead he was told he should have gone to the shipping federation and signed on there. After having to pay back the cash he had got from the dole, off to the Federation he went where he was offered a run job with Watts Watts, then a Bank line job followed by (I think) a Huntings job. All of which he turned down as it would have meant he would have been away for months and his referral would run out meaning he would have to re-sit the whole exam. Despite explaining this to the whallah behind the desk, the federation were adamant that he take one of the jobs. He refused so that was it, he got no dosh. He eventually took a job as a kitchen porter in a Whitley Bay hotel in order to earn some cash to tide himself over until he could resit his referral, which he passed. Blow me if he then did not go and join the Bank Line and spent a number of years with them. I lost touch with him some years later after he had married an Aussie girl and I believe he emigrated to Tasmania.
rgds
JA