1966

[j.sabourn]

Our society of today has reached where it has by different levels of master and slaves for want of a better description. From religion and the Lord of the manor making their own laws in to the original Houses of Parliament where what passed for democracy was left to those who were allowed to vote, and if the same people who were in power then had total say of what happens today then we would have stayed in a static position in time. The unions were formed mainly between two world wars , mainly by men who wanted a better future for themselves and their families, they had fought for their Lord and masters wars for them , seen more of the world to advance their own education, so we’re not like moles living in the dark anymore. By the same laws already laid down every man has a right to withdraw his labour. But also on the other hand every business man has a right to employ who they want. So here is where the impasse originally lay. There is talk today by certain leaders in the EU
that Nationalism is a dirty word. Personally I don’t think it is. Australia had the semblance of the correct way of doing things where basically Australians had to be employed first and no foreign nationals, could only work in the country for a fixed length of time. This worked ok on what I saw, but government got in the way of this and deliberately bit by bit changed to what you have today, a cheap labour market. A well organised and properly run Union is the only safe guard the worker has , as long as governments are out to appease others only to garnish votes from the electorate. A Union is only an abonimation to those big businesses in the fact they do not have control of it. The media will always elect to give unions bad press for their own well being as they are big business as well. I am a Nationalist and if that is bad there is something wrong with peoples thinking , my own kith and kin come first in any argument. Won’t be long now before National Assistance ceases to become a title and becomes international assistance. Only remains to brainwash enough people. JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

We have just had a banking Royal Commission here and I was surprised that they didn't find that the Banking unions weren't to blame for the problems. It was the wonderful Banker's that charged commissions to dead people for years, that ripped off billions from peoples bank accounts and paid it to mortgage brokers. The present Govt is in strife because they allowed the banks to ruin the country, even wanting to give them huge tax rebates despite massive profits, these wonderful people are the ones that keep the people in poverty, and we still have working people who believe they are Gods gift and can do no wrong.
Des

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi John S.
As for the above post, your expunged post allows me to rest my case.
Cheers Des

[Keith at Tregenna]

1966, was that an important footie World cup year ?

Need another one.

K.

[happy daze john in oz]

Here we go again happy as can be. Union bashing season is with us once again. Leading the cavalry charge the Noble Lord Spud Peeler of Pontefract .

Who caused the 08 financial crash which cost taxpayers billions in bank bailouts ?
Who caused austerity when deciding the poor , the sick and disabled should pay for the greed of the bankers ?
Who has wasted millions in every position he has held including awarding a contract to run a ferry service to a non company who did not have ferries ?
Who accused the police of crying wolf when they warned of rising crime if their numbers were cut ?

As Nelson said when rising the telescope to his blind eye. I do not see any unions.

Louis mate, the financial problems of 08 was in fact a credit squeeze.
The problem began when Clinton deregulated the banking industry with no safe guards in place, it became an open for all season.
Banks with no control loaned monies they often knew they would not recover.
The largest suppliers of global credit at that time were China and Russia, both realized that there was a chance thye would not get their money back so puled the plug on credit at that time.
Without the availability of such the world of finance comes to a halt.

Do not blame the UK gov, or any other for the problems.
the repair job undertaken by the UK gov, and many others, may not have been in hind sight the best way to deal with it.

[happy daze john in oz]

We have just had a banking Royal Commission here and I was surprised that they didn't find that the Banking unions weren't to blame for the problems. It was the wonderful Banker's that charged commissions to dead people for years, that ripped off billions from peoples bank accounts and paid it to mortgage brokers. The present Govt is in strife because they allowed the banks to ruin the country, even wanting to give them huge tax rebates despite massive profits, these wonderful people are the ones that keep the people in poverty, and we still have working people who believe they are Gods gift and can do no wrong.
Des

Des, there were many aspects of the commission that have yet to come to light.
One of the main problems was that the bodies set up to control the banks failed, and badly so.
Brokers, originally set up under the Hawke gov though few know that it was so long ago.
As to charging 'dead', if the passing of the person is not notified to the insurer or others then charges can and legally so be charged.
Our finance guy has been caught up in it, one of the clients did not notify the super company her husband had passed so charges were still made.
When finally discovered she said it was financially better for her not to notify of his passing.
She could end up in court yet on charges of fraud.

AS to tax breaks, it is the big companies that create the employment for the many. There was a push to allow the tax breaks for all companies except the banks, but it failed in the senate.
If we do not support big business then no profits for share holders, so no company, no employment, that is the scenarios Des.

[j.sabourn]

In all walks of life people fiddle , either on expenses , or on not being careful enough with other people’s money. One good example in a small way brought on by the union as regarding the maritime expenses joining and leaving. Vessels was a stipulated list for the Industry. Where meal allowances and such like it was stipulated what was the maximum for breakfast lunch and dinner. This was only one small attempt to stop the rorts of some. Pity it wasn’t followed in the business world also. Without That union and going back to the uk I have been in compAnys where expenses did not exist, even travel was at ones own expense. This was in the 20th. Century and probably still exists today in non union ship owners. For those who complained about unions out here my advice to them would be ok go and negotiate your own conditions , the conditions we have are for union members only. The biggest moaners of unions were the first to accept the salary’s that the union had fought for. This does not say I’m a union flunkey, I just believe they are the best negotiating power the working man who cannot talk for himself, has. They are hated by the misinformed And the wealth keepers, who see them as a danger to their own mass profits. JS.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi John.
As a union negotiator in a few awards I can tell you that we saw all aspects of the employers arguments as to what they could and would afford, and it was on this that agreements were made. In one instant after experiencing a lot of flack from non unionists we told the builders not to pay any increase to non union members, the screams could be heard from Sydney to Woolongong, we had many either join or rejoin, why should people who shunned the unions get any recompense from their efforts.
And to make things clear everyone in Australia should benefit from Super, and that was achieved through discussions with the unions we forfeited a wage rise to get the 9%, which over the years would have increased in proportion to our wage increases therefore saving the employers $millions.
Cheers Des

[j.sabourn]

One of the biggest rorts I can remember in the UK was government instigated and during the Thatcher years. Where she brought back in that if a seaman or offshore worker made 3 consecutive trips to the same joining port then all his expenses if any paid by the company would go on to his salary as earnings and be taxed as such for ever after. She also tearfully explained that for the good of the country and the economic situation at the time any first class travel by seafarers would be put on hold, until better times. This never again re-appeared. The whole idea of 1st. Class travel was to ensure a seat on the train which were usually packed going to the Scottish oil ports.
When it was pointed out about business people flying frequently to different parts of the world tax free, she came back with the limp excuse that they were going from their place of business to their place of business , I assume by the same token they didn’t go home to pick up their toothbrush. Nothing should ever be giving away as has now happened and continues to happen in the shipping world. People still can’t see the facts staring them in the face. Unfortuanetley what is going to happen is more militant unions trying to get in, and they will as people see their living standards deteriorate. I don’t think Shorten is the man for the job otherwise he would get my vote, but instinct puts me off him. JS

[j.sabourn]

Des I arrived here in 1991 and before anything else had to become a member of the guild before being employed in shipping here. To anyone with my background who had it knocked into my head at an early age the evils of unions, it was a bit off putting. It was also self enlightenment to see the excellent conditions . I used to ask why the supply vessels didn’t carry a cook, as was brought up in British ships which had to have a cook. The cook had to be done away with previous to my emigrating out here, it was a stipulation of the owners for a small pay rise. So one mans job had to go to appease a minor gain in wages. I realise there is a lot of negotiation goes on , and it is not always the bully boys of the unions who are described such by the press, who get their own way. Most betterment’s in shipping over the years hasn’t come easy, and it has taken a lot of honest ones as well as the militant ones to gain any progress in conditions. Giving time in the not too far distant future third world crews will have to go through the same cycle of events. JS..