Liverpool

[John Arton]

Last night I was watching "Who do you think you are" on the BBC. This is a program that traces the roots of well known celebrities here in the U.K. (there is a similar version in the U.S.A.).
Last nights episode featured a Ricky Tomlinson, a Liverpool born actor/comedian who has featured in a number of well known T.V. programs/sit-coms.
He was rightly proud of his Liverpool family roots going back over 200 years but he did go a bit over the top regarding the gulf in wealth and housing between the Merchants who made Liverpool the city it was (and is) and the workers of the day. His family were carters on the docks back in the early 1800's and a number of them were tragically killed in accidents. As an ex. Union Convenor he kept going on about health and safety or lack of it. What he failed to point out it was only through the efforts of those Merchants was the city able to grow and so give employment to its citizens, albeit under conditions that these days we all would find intolerable but that was the and we cannot change history.
What I never realised was the amount of religious bigotry between Catholics and Protestants that went on back in the days after the huge influx of Irish fleeing the potato famine in Ireland, with troops on the streets to quell riots.
The bigotry was only halted when a guy called Mann called for the carters to form themselves into a Union and to reject religion but work together for the betterment of all. The Union was to encompass not only the carters (predominately Protestant) and the Dockers (predominately Catholic).
The union formed was one of the first to strike causing the government of the day to send in troops to break up the strike as they feared that the strike was crippling the countries trade, Liverpool at that time being the port handling the largest tonnage of any U.K. port.
Tomlinson is a rabid socialite and his views have never mellowed even after seeing what Socialite parties have done to this and other Countries around the world. You can admire him for his views (he even went to prison for a while when he was a Union convenor) but nowadays I think he is in the minority with his views and despite still living in Liverpool, being successful as an Actor and even owning his own club, he should move along a bit, even if he is to adopt Blairite views as opposed to M. Foot's and his ilk views.
rgds
JA

[Chris Allman]

When I was a Cadet in L+H our ships used to berth at SW Alexandra Dock in Liverpool, on the seawall basically. To get to them from the dock road we had to walk down the long avenues of warehouses bustling with dockers, lorries and carts, bit of a bind with all your bags, so we used to hitch a lift on the horse drawn carts. The carters never minded and were great characters. How times have changed, now Alexandra, Canada, Huskisson, Hornby Docks all derelict, cranes gone, warehouses gone just a wide expanse of flat vacant empty land and docks and the Overhead Railway the Dockers Umbrella gone too. A complete world of bustle, sights, smells and unforgettable characters gone in an instant and forever. Really makes me sad and very nostalgic for the 50s and 60s Liverpool.

[gray_marian]

Great programme John never miss it but didn't he play to camera It was like a party political broadcast. Enjoyed the social history aspect of it. Sadly he confirmed my previous thoughts an ignorant loudmouth luvvie needing a good scrub.
The vast majority of working class folk lived in exactly the same conditions as his gt,grandparents did, nothing new there. His constant bleating about injustice wore thin blaming others always for their misfortune, incredulous that he thought even then there should be handouts from government. Same old same old propaganda guff and mentality, gimme gimme gimme. No mention of his maternal side probably a few bob there that didn't suit his public persona.
Owning his own club eh, a night of torture, champagne socialist...surely not..As for him taking pride in his grandfather that he perceived to be in a photograph of a gathering that Mr Mann was addressing, no proof whatsoever. Apparently his grandfather by his account very rarely spoke but hey don't let the hypothetical get in the way of a good story..Sorry John, don't rate your man fullstop

The historical facts on Liverpool itself were most enjoyable and painted an historical picture of Liverpool old and the characters therein

[John Albert Evans]

Chris,

You can still see Liverpool as it was in 20/30/40/50 and 60's on U Tube they have half and one hour short films and are very good to remember but its not the same as the real thing of the time you cannot relive the crossing of the Mersey on the old ferries and seeing ships everywhere.

John

[Chris Allman]

Hi John, thank you. Even the ferries are dying now. 50 years + old and showing it, constantly breaking down. Out of the three there is only one going at the moment. One is laid up and a terrible sight and the other is in Cammell Lairds and has been for months with undisclosed mechanical problems. I don't know if its bad management, or lack of funding or even both but the way things are going, I think we will be lucky to have a Mersey Ferry in the near future.

[John Callon]

Did not see the program but have recorded it. Whatever his views are political or otherwise its worth noting that he donated £800,000 to the Human Milk Charity in Cheshire and a reported one million pounds to Alder Hay Childrens Hospital in Liverpool.
Regards
John C

[Jim Brady]

What I never realised was the amount of religious bigotry between Catholics and Protestants that went on back in the days after the huge influx of Irish fleeing the potato famine in Ireland, with troops on the streets to quell riots.


JA

The religious bigotry did not stop there and in fact went on for many years to come.I remember my first day at work a kid of 15 in a builders hut right opposite Canada Dock doing work on a factory.First break in the hut someone asked me my name,James I replied,the abuse I took from "a man" was unbelievable.First words were "your most probably a f/n Catholic aren't you" and then 5 minutes of abuse about the catholic church,and not one man said leave the kid alone.I had an idea where that guy lived and I often looked for him when I was older,nothing but a bully which I have no time for.That was in 1955 and I thought things had moved on from then,I recruited staff and never bothered what religion they were,get the right person for the job and we all live happily ever after.An ex manager who worked in the company I was in went area manager in a Liverpool company and phoned me and asked me to join him (scousers on here will know Sturlas checks) so I joined that company never filling a form out.A woman who had been in the company about 40 years said to me "Do you know what Mr Brady I don't know how you got a job in this company with you being a Catholic" I hadn't told her what religion I was.Now this is about 1977 well after the time Ricky Tomlinson is talking about.We acquired another company with branches in Birmingham and other cities,it was my job to visit these offices and recruit staff I would obviously try and get the current staff to join us.I was in Birmingham and gave out application forms to fill out to join us,the next thing they all brought them back,we don't want to work for you,why I asked,what's it got todo with you what our religion is,I didn't know it was on the application,as I said this was 1977.
So you would've had to have lived in the time Ricky was talking about to understand it.He married a catholic girl,she would've been disowned by her family and the same would've happened to him.I may add I married a C.O.E.girl also.
Regards.
Jim.b.

John Callon totally agree with your post Ricky has done more in one day for charity than many of his critics will achieve in a lifetime.

[John Callon]

You said it Jim. I have a great deal of admiration and respect for the guy. As an entertainer and actor he is right up there with the best in my book.
Regards
John C

[j.sabourn]

Hi Jim, I have seen that religious fanaticism carried on in ships, in particular the Ravensworth one of Dalgliesh"s ore carriers in 1965. Also on another FOC ship where there were only 4 Europeans on board 2 of them being Irish. In the past in our days when applying for a job, one always had to put on your CV what your religion was and also a photograph, this I believe the human rights have stopped, in theory it is a good thing, but the way things stand at present with other religions maybe it is time to bring it back. I fail to understand this bigotism between the Catholic Church and the Church of England, both believe in the Bible, both put the same interpretation on, so whats the reason for getting so riled up about, I believe it was brought about by the Church itself and people have a slow learning curve and has been handed down family to family, the same as the troubles in the Middle east. Religion is a man made thing and is the last reason to kill for. My first memories of the Church are when I was seven and was a choir boy for a short time, that is 73 years ago but can still remember singing, " I believe in the Catholic Church, the communion of Saints and the resurrection of the Body Aaaaahhhhmen", even though it was a church of England, must have been very high as found out in later life they even had a confessional box. I later attended a Methodist Chapel, because the boys Life Brigade was attached to, and was married in the Church of Scotland ( Presb.) All Christian Churches are the same to all true Christians. And don't need a vicar or Priest extolling the virtues of Christianity at you. Today being a Christian day of rememberance, is an especial day tomorrow when all Christian faiths should celebrate, even though it is probably a mythical date it is the one chosen to do so. Gold Frankencense and Myrhh should in fact be the only presents contemplated. Merry and happy Christmas to all and celebrate the way you want. Be it Drink, Eat, and enjoy. I would prefer my present to be Gold, 25 carats will do. Cheers JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Jim.
In Wales it wasn't religion, it was age old dislike for those over the border for old social injuries . My older sister now passed was the apple of her Grans eye when she was born, my Gran would only speak Welsh said that never would an English word pass her lips, though there were six kids in our family my sister was the ONE. During the war she joined the Wrens and while there she married a bloke from Middlesbrough, for my Gran that was it, my sister was Persona non Grata, as she had married an Englishman. Probably if she hadn't passed away would have cut me as well as I married an English girl.
Cheers Des