The Untouchable

[Gulliver]

.....I sailed with so many who were willing to pass on their skills. Without those AB's willing to pass on their skills to the youngsters (including cadets) the ships would not have run well and we would have learned nothing except how to chip and paint. Having been ashore for so many years now and read so many of the foregoing threads on present day AB's experience (or lack of it) what skills do they have to pass on to others, very little it would seem.

The joy of being a youngster at sea was watching the old hands, rigging stages, bosuns chairs, splicing ropes and wires of all dimensions, making bell ropes, knot boards etc etc and "wishing I could do that" and then later on achieving it thanks to the willingness of shipmates passing on their experience even to us cadets for which I am eternally grateful.

Always makes me smile that . It was just understood that from time immemorial that apprentices ,cadets or even ‘midshipmen’ as they called them in a certain company with a blue painted funnel, were automatically conditioned to think of themselves as being the lowest of the low aboard any ship(even if they weren’t exactly treated as such,in fact some of them thought of themselves as being much higher than that. - At least.for a brief while.!)

I suppose the reasoning, behind it,if there was a reason, that if you were thought of as being so low,there was only one way you could go from there-and that was Up !

　
As a cadet ,in between doing some of the dirtiest jobs imaginable,I too was very grateful in being taught how to steer,splice rope and wire , and launch and maintain life boat and other lifesaving appliances by the QM/AB’s aboard the white crew ships,and learn how to chip (both manual and ’windy’) ,scale and paint ,from the Indian crews on the Asian crewed ships.(using the obligatory wad of cotton waste,on railings,pipework and stanchions etc.-no brush.); it’s such a wonder that many of us are still alive without having succumbed to dermatitis from the kerosene or lead poisoning from all that red lead in the paint that used to coat our hands,arms and sometimes other places…...

　
Yes,I was always grateful to the AB’s and EDH’s who passed on their seamanship skills and knowledge.
Bear in mind too that we cadets had to possess both a Lifeboat ticket and an EDH ticket,as well as the Radar Observer’s;Restricted Radio Telephony; Electronic Navaids;Firefighting;First Aid etc. prior to taking 2^nd Mates, So life was full and interesting.

I suppose these days candidates will probably have to acquire numerous sundry other electronic- doo-dah -with whistles and bells on -certificates, but what will be missing is the actual learning of seamanship skills from fellow shipmates in a shipboard environment.I can imagine precious little of that happens these days,mostly being done in port by shore squads I would think.

They were happy, interesting days-but then we all miss them here.

　
　
Gulliver

[Red Lead Ted]

Hi RLT,
I dont think anyone was accusing you of telling porkies, i think its a statement of how things used to be in earlier times. I should think if we had members from sailing ship days, they would put us all to shame on how tough they had it. I`m sure the system changed considerably in your time, its just us old gits on our nostalgia run. No offence meant in any way. Regards KT

But i still intend to get hold of a book from my era and scan it on the site, I am begining to think i dream,t it now,,,,,,, One thing that we all have in common on this site is we were all under the same ships articles, I dont thing they differ in year,s but that can await another day Regards m8 Terry.

[kurutai]

As far as I remember we had to have passed both our edh and lifeboat exams before we could become a.b which was a two week course aboard the old Triton in surrey dock and to sit the edh exam we had to have a steering certificate otherwise we would not be allowed to sit it, then once we had 36 months on articles in total from when we first went to sea we could obtain our a,b ticket , I also did a fire fighting course at silver town fire station for which I have a certificate but it was not stamped in my book ,I sat my lifeboat ticket 26th/9th/60 and edh 5th/10/60 and became a.b 7th /7th/61 regards to all hands Dave .

[Red Lead Ted]

Yep, I am correct in my thought,s things obviously changed but i new i was correct. Anyone with a book that ran when our books were changed in 1972 and on deck done there training at gravesend Kent{ I CANT SPEAK FOR OTHER RATINGS BECAUSE I WAS ONLY ON DECK} Go to page 48 in your new book. I will have this in my hand by Saturday this week from an old m8 i was at Gravesend with got it confirmed by telephone this afternoon by his sister he sadely passed a few year,s ago. At the foot of the page there is a box it contains date of discharge from gravesend {Delete as nessasery} Containing L.B. @ E.D.H. Also signed by a pool Superintendent If L.B. is deleted it meant you would have to take your ticket again as you failed in Gravesend. Both L.B. and E.D.H. was niether deleted in my book. Which is why i never had to sit either exam again. I was automatically made E.D.H. and only had a one day refresher course to obtain my boat ticket. There has to be more member,s that were at gravesend pre 1970 and had 2 books. Will scan the page when i recieve it from cathy this weekend but if anyone looks at there 2nd book and finds the same plz scan and post Regards Lads, Brian, @ Bill, Terry.......

[Captain Kong]

Hi Terry, I never said you were wrong just that the system had been changed and later changed again.
The `Vindicatrix` was the same training as Gravesend, both were The National Sea Training School, It was used at Gravesend and was sent to Sharpness in Glos, in 1939 when WW2 started.
.
.

here is a copy of my old discharge book which has badly deteriorated and inpieces, over the last 60 years.
You will see I was at the Vindicatrix from March to June 1952, the second side of the book shows a BOATSWAINS discharge, that does not mean a thing, no Lifeboat no EDH .
On the stamps or entries underneath is the Lifeboat Certificate dated 20 April 1954 and the EDH Certificate stamped 26 April 1954 from Cornhill MM Ofice Liverpool. on the second image is the AB Certificate stamp, 18 January 1956 from Cornhill in Liverpool.
Cheers
Brian.

[Captain Kong]

Go to page 48 in your new book. Terry .
My first book had only 30 pages in
, My second Book had page 48 which was for DTI Eye Tests,
My third book , page 48 was for DTI Eye tests.
Again the system was changing all the time.
Cheers
Brian.

[Roger Dyer]

Hi Dave (Kurutai).........re your #33

I'm thinking that your memory serves you well, mate, as your account of sea-time required for E.D.H. and A.B. is much as I remember it. It seems you and I are of similar vintage. I, too, did the two-week course on the 'Triton' for my Life-Boat Certificate and E.D.H., however, when I took the courses in March-April '59, the Triton was berthed in West India Dock. My Lifeboat certificate No.167386 and E.D.H.certificate No.49490 show that they were both issued to me at Dock Street on the 15/4/59. My A.B.'s certificate No.57526 was issued on 17/3/61. As with my Discharge Book and Seaman's I.D., I cherish these mementos of a most significant and enjoyable time of my life.


..........best regards, Roger.

[Red Lead Ted]

Go to page 48 in your new book. Terry .
My first book had only 30 pages in
, My second Book had page 48 which was for DTI Eye Tests,
My third book , page 48 was for DTI Eye tests.
Again the system was changing all the time.
Cheers
Brian.

Page 48 was for eye tests in our books and that is were the block is at the foot of the page for EDH @LB Purposes were used Regards Terry.

[kurutai]

Hi Dave (Kurutai).........re your #33

I'm thinking that your memory serves you well, mate, as your account of sea-time required for E.D.H. and A.B. is much as I remember it. It seems you and I are of similar vintage. I, too, did the two-week course on the 'Triton' for my Life-Boat Certificate and E.D.H., however, when I took the courses in March-April '59, the Triton was berthed in West India Dock. My Lifeboat certificate No.167386 and E.D.H.certificate No.49490 show that they were both issued to me at Dock Street on the 15/4/59. My A.B.'s certificate No.57526 was issued on 17/3/61. As with my Discharge Book and Seaman's I.D., I cherish these mementos of a most significant and enjoyable time of my life.


..........best regards, Roger.

It,s not often I,m right Roger I reckon I,m wrong again yes West India dock it was , I have to say it was a good job health and safety was pretty much non existant because when we put the boat down on the old Triton we should have kept rowing for the shore best regards Dave .