Royal Horse Artillery John Smith

[Kathryn Steeman]

Charles John Maloney was born 1907 so would have been between 1921 and 1931 as one CR2 full print says 1921 and the other tag/form I posted is date marked 1931? A bit confusing but will get to the bottom of it with all the great help and replies I have been receiving so far. It is hard when there is no one alive whom would know as is the case with my grandfather married to Charles John Maloney's eldest sister, I am trying to trace his service record but don't know his service number and it doesn't help is name was JOHN SMITH, yes not kidding and no middle name. I know he was in Royal Horse Artillery but which regiment ?? Know he was born 17/04/1890 and died in 1945 saw VE day but not VJ day. He was 8 1/2 years in India where he was when shipped to WW1 battlefield presume 1915. Didn't get married until 1918. His parents were John Smith and Mary Ann Smith nee McKenlay. He doesn't show up in their 1911 household census form( 54 Fulbourne Street, Whitechapel, London) so must have joined up to the army between 1911 and 1905 when he would have been 15, not sure what age you could join or he lied about age, who knows anything is possible. Found a form "Attestation for the Militia" for a John Smith said age was 17 y 6months signed at Stratford recruiting office 27 Sept 1905. He could have lied about age ? did you have to produce document to prove age? This John Smith though was residing in West Ham Essex at the time and entered the Essex regiment. Mum's positive he was Horse artillery as he had a Horse head tattoo on his arm and she was told all in that regiment got them. He was shot in the foot in WW1 and mustard gassed. Didn't serve in WW2 as his lungs were shot from WW1.Am trying to find more out about him also but the services website can only do so much. They suggested a researcher but the cost is probably a bit much when converted to NZ dollars and bank fees added. Any suggestions anyone, I know not having his service number doesn't help. Always the hopefull though.

Cheers

Kathryn

[Doc Vernon]

JOHN SMITH,

born 17/04/1890 and died in 1945

Where exactly was he Born please! I take it London but what Area ? Was it at that address Whitechapel
Thank You

[Kathryn Steeman]

Hi Vernon

I was going to attach copy of birth certificate but it exceeds website allowance. It says Mile End Old Town in the county of London. I think I have found his service number 39257. There are two entries on Forces war records site for John Smith/J Smith 1915 & 1918 which correspond to his injury we know about and mustard gassing and 1 medal card with ref numbers on it at National Archives. have also found an Attestation for the Militia dated 27 Sept 1905. The little so and so lied about his age said he was 17 1/2 but was really 15 1/2. He was a tall person ,well built so probably looked older. What is it with the males in this family and lying about age!! Will need to hire some one to look up further details at National Archives as being on other side of the world can not pop down there myself.

[Keith at Tregenna]

There is a record ?

John Smith
Son
England and Wales Census, 1901

Name
John Smith
Event Type
Census
Event Date
31 Mar 1901
Event Place
Whitechapel, London, Middlesex, England
County
London, Middlesex
Civil Parish
Whitechapel
Ecclesiastical Parish
St Mary
Sub-District
Mile End New Town
Registration District
Whitechapel
Residence Note
Thomas Street
Gender
Male
Age
10
Relationship to Head of Household
Son

Birth Year (Estimated)
1891
Birthplace
Mile End, London

[Keith at Tregenna]

He doesn't show up in their 1911 household census form( 54 Fulbourne Street, Whitechapel, London)

Cheers

Kathryn

A possibility ?

John Smith
England and Wales Census, 1911
Name
John Smith
Event Type
Census
Event Date
1911
Event Place
, Jullundur Punjab India, Overseas Military,
County
Overseas Military
Age
20
Marital Status (Original)
SINGLE
Birth Year (Estimated)
1891
Birthplace
Mile End London England, London

?

K.

[Kathryn Steeman]

Yes on Forces website are these links

Record Details for J Smith (Royal Horse Artillery)

Record Details for John Smith (Royal Horse Artillery)

and their support person found this in National Archives

I have also located a document in the Online Collections of the UK National Archives:

Medal card of Smith, John
Corps Royal Horse Artillery
Regiment No 39257
Rank Gunner

This document contains Regimental Number, Rank, Name, Unit/Corps and Medals Awarded.

Before purchasing access to this card, you should be aware that if you wish to hire a researcher, this card would be included in all records our researcher would obtain for you should you hire them to assist you.

Medal Index Card located here: discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5238833


I would suggest either a visit to the National Archives to search the documents held off line or Hiring a Researcher to do this for you.

I down loaded the index card see attachement

Cheers Kathryn

[Kathryn Steeman]

Wow Keith, that certainly ties in with knowledge we have of my Grandfather! What site was this on? found the 1901 and 1891 census forms for family. They lived in Tarling Street, St George in the East, London & Middlesex 1891 . They have my Great Grandfather name also John Smith with wrong birth date listed , I blew up original census document and you can see it says 25 not 35 for age. 1901 they lived 54 Thomas Street, Whitechapel. John Smith my grandfather appears in both these but not 1911 as from what you found would explain this

[Keith at Tregenna]

Wow Keith, that certainly ties in with knowledge we have of my Grandfather! What site was this on?

Hi Kathryn,

I generally us any and all free sites, ideally a mix of most.

Then cross reference and try to ensure reasonable links.

All on site have own proven methods and hence working as a team
generally gives best results.

As with any request we start at square one and ask many questions,
this is necessary for us to assist.

We can also get things wrong hence more questions.

Usually, the more we are told, the better we can help.

The site I would advise for general family research is;
LDS FamilySearch.

It is free, you need to register, first and surname, e.mail address and make up a password.

Your first interest would be just to search, you will find a lot.

Initially, if you want to give it a try and let us know how you get on.

I have found much with just the info we now have.

https://www.familysearch.org/

Regards Keith.

PS. On the top of each results page there is another tab; Collections.

This will guide you to emigration, military records etc etc.

PPS: Never give up.

K.


.

[Doc Vernon]

Lets hope we can keep this one on track and separate from the other now!
Thanks

Have Edited and Moved Posts around to alleviate confusion between the two Persons we are searching for

[Keith at Tregenna]

RE: my grandfather married to Charles John Maloney's eldest sister

John Smith

England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005

Registration Quarter
Jan-Feb-Mar

marriage:
1918
Stepney, London, England

Spouse:
Maloney

Other:
Winnifred E Maloney

K.

.