What's happening with P&O ferries

[j.sabourn]

#65 Vic I find it hard to believe that Clyde Marine Recruitment did not know about the Redundancies when approached to supply 800 workers. ? A very lucrative assignment for them. I only attempted to use them once in 1987 when made redundant in 1986. They came back with the offer of a masters job which shortly after rescinded on the excuse that I had been employed in the offshore for so many years and maybe out of touch with cargo ships, which I said rubbish , a ship is a ship is a ship. They then offered a small tanker running from Iceland to Liverpool with Fish oil , the wages were absyminal so I knocked back and found my own fill in job and finished up with the mad Yugoslav later. However the ship I knocked back was lost with all hands on Xmas day 1986 or 87. On passage off Iceland , some of the bodies recovered showed no signs of drink and it ran into some lump of rock in broad daylight so am pleased I did knock back .Graham S. Must have the records of that one , it did not receive much publicity as was only a small tanker manned I would imagine by mainly retired seafarers . So they crossed the bar mostly unknown by others . 800 men would be a nice money earner for GMR as the going rate for supply used to be the equivilant of the mans months salary. JS
PS I would also imagine that monthly salary would be based on the Old rates of pay and not the new ones for the cheap labour, or if not a fixed sum would have to be agreed on. All this not knowing business cuts no ice with me.
Is the usual story in Shipping , “ I was not informed M’Lud “. Cheers JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi John, The more things change the more they stay as they are, it's an employers magic trick, wont be long now before they go back to two in a bunk, these days that would bring many racing to fill the berths.
Des

[j.sabourn]

Yes Des like yourself have seen them come and I’ve seen them go. Started with dry ships went to rationed alcohol, then open bars on ships , then back today dry ships all to catch the labour market . The principles of the maritime union out here when I arrived to live at first glance seemed to be absurd , but working with their conditions changed my mind even though some of the rules I may not have agreed with. The parts I did agree with was that to work in Australian waters you had to be an Australian , If an Australian of alien descent you got the going rate everyone working got the laid out salary , there was no cheap labour. My years were from 1991 to 2002 .Before that was heresay to me after 2002 is also heresay , but is from people I sailed with here and their views are the pendulum has swung back to days of yore. Believe cheap labour is also back on the market . Advancement is seen by different governments in different ways , it doesn’t matter what flag they fly , that’s why I don’t have too much regard for any of them. JS

[Graham Shaw]

......... They then offered a small tanker running from Iceland to Liverpool with Fish oil , the wages were abysmal so I knocked back and found my own fill in job and finished up with the mad Yugoslav later. However the ship I knocked back was lost with all hands on Xmas day 1986 or 87. On passage off Iceland , some of the bodies recovered showed no signs of drink and it ran into some lump of rock in broad daylight so am pleased I did knock back .Graham S. Must have the records of that one , it did not receive much publicity as was only a small tanker manned I would imagine by mainly retired seafarers . So they crossed the bar mostly unknown by others ...JS

JS Yr #71.In reply John,here are my collated details from various sources of that incident.

It is of course sad reading.
Graham S.

The SYNETA, (IMO 6919681 )a tanker registered in Gibralter, was wrecked off Skrudhur Is, Iceland on 25 December 1986, with the loss of her entire crew of 12.

She was an ex Swedish tanker, the Marga,built in 1969 (499grt,1,340 dwt) which had been deepened in 71,then lengthened in 77( and.renamed Margareta) at that time..Renamed SYNETA from 85.
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In the disaster, this now larger 1,199 grt(1,996 dwt) British-owned tanker Syneta sent a Mayday distress call saying it had run aground and couldn`t launch any liferafts because it was too close to a steep, rocky outcrop.The crew of six Britons and six Cape Verde Islanders apparently jumped into the sea when the ship began to sink, said Rescue Organization spokesman Johannes Briem. The Syneta was smashed to pieces.The rescuers recovered six bodies, all in life jackets. Two other bodies slipped out of their jackets and sank as the searchers tried to pull them aboard trawlers. One crewman was found alive but died shortly afterward.


CREW
Master-lived Llandudno Junction,N.Wales
C/E -Bob Wakefield
2/E Alan Brown
Cook Kevin Dixon of Hull. Initially alive, but later died.
C/O?
2/O?
+ 6 Cape Verde crew members.(3 bodies found,3 never recovered.)


Hundreds of volunteers combed the beaches.The 284-foot ship was purchased by Syndicate Tankships Ltd. of Gibraltar in October, 1985, and is managed by Haggerstone Marine Ltd. of Hornchurch outside London, said managing agent Gordon Haggerstone. It carried vegetable oils and was registered as a motor vessel, he said.The Syneta was empty when it left the English port of Liverpool on Dec.20 for Eskifjordur on the east coast of Iceland to pick up 1,100 tons of fish- liver oil. ``She had been due to return via Rotterdam and Dunkirk,``Haggerstone said.The Syneta ran aground in relatively good weather on Skrudur rock, a 531- foot-high outcrop at the mouth of the Faskrudsfjordur fjord, he said.Capt. Hannas Hafstein of the Icelandic Lifesaving Association said:``It`s high and it`s straight and the ship ran aground on the southern part of it. We can`t understand why she sailed right into it.``The ship hit the rock at its northeast corner and was only a few yards from passing it safely, said Ingolfur Fridgeirsson, who was overseeing the rescue effort from Eskifjordur.Briem said the crew gave an incorrect position 10 miles north of Skrudurrock in the Mayday call. But he said rescuers found the tanker after seeing a distress flare fired by the crew.The first of 12 fishing boats, the Thorri, got to the scene 30 minutes later. It found the ship nearly capsized and saw no sign of the crew, Briemsaid.The first body was found floating in the sea 70 minutes later.
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Tony Nightingale ex-Mostyn Harbourmaster was regular Master,on leave, and flew to Iceland to identify bodies,

And a report from another website,of another company Master,Robert Henderson.


“I was Master at the time on leave from the Syndic (IMO 6418845) ,500 grt tanker built 1964,another ship owned by Syndicate shipping Gibraltar. I saw the news of the sinking on the Television news just as I was starting my Boxing Day lunch. I just could not eat anymore as I knew several of the crew, so I went out and bought a newspaper, all sorts of stories were in the press. She was tailed by a Russian submarine as well as some thing to do with the RN. The spokesman for the company at the time was John Taylor not Gordon Haggerstone. The regular Master of the Syneta was ex harbour master of a port on Deeside, he was also on leave but went with John Taylor to Iceland to look at the ship and identify the bodies, the crewmember pulled out of the water alive was named Kevin Dixon from Hull. I had sailed with Kevin on other ships, he was a great cook, the cook I had on the Syndic was useless so I was going to get rid of him and take Kevin, unfortunately he couldn't join me soon enough hence the reason he joined the Syneta. I wrote a letter of condolence to his parents, the hardest thing I have ever had to do in all my seagoing career. I cannot remember who the mate was on the Syneta, The Master was from North Wales and new to the company but had many years command experience foreign going The Second Mate was also new to the company. Before leaving Liverpool both radars on the Syneta were overhauled, and according to the regular master all the bridge equipment was in working order, I cannot see that a fully qualified master would have taken the ship to sea if he had any doubts as to the equipment. Autopsies were carried out on the bodies and there were no signs of alcohol, this was another reason given by the press as it was Xmas.The Gibraltar authorities came to the conclusion due to the time of the grounding that the second mate would have been on watch, and that due to the heating system on the Syneta that he probably fell asleep, as it was a clear night, the light house was functioning and was a good radar aspect.What actually happened on that tragic night? as there were no survivors nobody will know for sure. Hope this is some help. Robert Henderson”

Images of SYNETA-Courtesy of ShipSpotting.com

[j.sabourn]

That’s her Graham thanks. The conditions were that I went there for 1 trip as mate then went master for the Xmas trip . All sounded reasonable until the owner was on the phone from Gibraltar and I found what the conditions were. The wages were 600 pounds a month and this was don’t forget in 1986 or 7200 pounds a year. I had been getting over 18000 pounds a year as master working for 6 months on supply vessels previously. It was 2 trips on and one trip off and he said what you do on your trip off is your own business , you can get a job in a gas station filling up. Cars with petrol for all I care but you don’t go back to sea. I said no thank you , think I’ll look elsewhere. No problem he said there are plenty more who will take the job . Which made me think there must of been plenty of hard up mariners looking for part time work. I took another job for a year on two ships as mate on 1200 pounds a month , one of the ships finished up with a shonky Yugoslav master , but it served its purpose and Kept the wolf from the door. Then cut the cards
and took what was available in the North Sea in 1988 on 32 pounds a day , and were paid on a daily rate. Had about 4 scrap heaps and then the Piper Alpha blew up. Left them and about 10 days later joined Harrison’s of Clyde on their converted supply vessels on a near enough proper salary , until they were under cut by the other rogues in the stand by boat industry , after a few months of mooching around had enough of shipowners as such and emigrated to Oz and never looked back.To me the P&O fiasco is about par for the course in shipping in Europe. Ship Swindlers I call them the same as shipchandlers . Thanks for the info .all comes back now with a rush even the name Syneta . Cheers JS

PS thinking back my phone call with the owner , he left it up to me saying you can do a trip now as mate or leave it until Xmas and go straight there as master , however I declined on the 600 pounds a month. Which was the wage either way. JS

[j.sabourn]

#75. Further to this post on ruminating on the past, there was also a bonus of 50 pounds for every cargo. One of the benefits of foreign flags was the tax situation and if out of the country at that time April to April was tax free , running back and forwards into the uk don’t think it would be. However there is a different system of taxation for seafarers today I believe, and justly so. On that particular job the two trips on and one off did not have paid leave , would you have taken ? Many would as you can see , and was manned when she was lost. The stand by boats in the North Sea were dismally paid also and you would be surprised how many ex chief engineers from deep sea were there also eking out a living rather than go on the dole . Whoever was responsible for the decline of the British MN has nothing to be proud off . Cheers JS.

[happy daze john in oz]

There are a number of scenarios possible on this fiasco.

If P&O had sold they may well have wanted it kept quiet for some time so the agency may have been told a story that they had already sold to the new owner.

However if P&O are listed on the stock exchange then they must notify of any change to arrangements.

Being flagged in an overseas port also creates problems as they may no longer come under UK employment regulations.

Then again there may well be enough out of work seamen from other countries willing to work for much lower rate sof pay.

[j.sabourn]

As Graham says in his post on the Syneta John that ship was manned by Cape Verde crew. At the time of the loss of the Syneta I had taken a job as mate on another foreign flagged ship run by ship managers in the midlands. Can’t remember their name or the names of the two ships was on and have no records and my memory is a blank on their names .Anyhow they were manned by Cape Verdes also. Being small cargo vessels the crew consisted of master 1 and 2 mates , 2 engineers 1 and 2, Cape Verde Cook, 3 Cape Verde Seamen , 1 Cape Verde greaser. Total crew 10. The Cape Verde seamen although I have no doubt were competent seamen in their own element , were not on larger vessels , they could not steer , or drive the two cranes on tracks for opening the hatch lids and the two mates had to do. They were paid peanuts , but were happy enough except for this Yugoslav master we finally got on my last trip there who wanted to work them 24 hours a day. What a nut case. We had pirates boarded in the McKenzie river when at anchor off Georgetown in the old British Guiana , he sent me forward with 2 Cape Verde seamen to tackle 6 of them , when a shot gun was produced I told the 2 seamen to go back into the accomodation and I followed them. The nut case was slavering on about the focsle stores going over the side into their boat , so I invited him to the same instructions he had given us. He declined the offer. If you read this in a book you wouldn’t believe it . JS

[John Arton]

Apparently there is a loophole in U.K employment law that allows for vessels registered in a foreign country but trading between the U.K and continental ports, (such as cross channel ferries) to pay below minimum wage rates, P&O say they are paying staff the ITF rates.
The government has said it is bringing forward legislation to close the loophole.
P&O cruises have issued a statement saying they are a completely separate company from P&O ferries as they have received a number of cancellations for there cruises from British passengers over the ferry company treatment of staff.
Rgds
J.A.

[j.sabourn]

I spent 5 years on FF ships and yet to see these ITF rates. Never saw anyone else either who ever received , they must have been there somewhere but were hard to find . If they are a completely different company they must be off the stock exchange as believe they were a public limited company and should not be trading under P & O colours. JS