The "M" Boat's of Shell Tankers

[Captain Kong]

Hi Lewis
an ABLE SEAMAN was a skilled tradesman,.
Starting at 15 the 1st 12months as a Deck Boy, then 12 months as a Junior Ordinary Seaman. then 12 months as a Senior Ordinary Seaman. At the age of 18 he then went to take his EDH EXAMS, inc. Seamanship and a Lifeboat examination, all by the DTI Examiners
Then after FOUR Years as an EDH he got his AB Certificate. So that was Seven Years apprenticeship, Things have changed over the years
and not for the better,

[Lewis McColl]

7 years as said it was a way to keep wages down. As you describe the time required to achieve all that it would have taken him about 9 years then or did he not go home on leave. Brian I sailed on all types of vessels from General Cargo to LNG carriers from 1969 to 2013. If as you say it took 7 years to train an AB how long to make Bosun then. I sailed with some good lads. No way it should have taken 7 years to be trained up as AB it was all about keeping wages down.
I will admit the job has changed over the years. One of the reasons is ships have changed over the years. A thing you will probably not see on a ship these days would be an onboard spliced wire or runner not allowed HSE. Because of smaller crews the level of maintenance carried out by crews is greatly reduced. Concerning fabric maintenance that is usually just spot chipping and a dab of paint to protect from rust. I have not seen crew working over the side in years. Also on modern ships there is not half the deck gear to be maintained. The likes of windlass maintenance , Lifeboat winches Brakes etc! fell to the engineers , certainly on Bibby & BP ships. Fire fighting equipment was split between 3rd Off and 4th Engs.

[Captain Kong]

I am going back to 1952 when I first went to sea, It started changing in 1955 when they brought in DHU`s, Deck Hands Uncertificated, who were almost the same wage as an AB, Deck labourers.
They could not leave the deck or go over the wall, that was to break the 1955 strike.
Things went down hill fast after that

[Lewis McColl]

Brian in 1952 what was the crew size on a 4 or 5 hatch Mid ship accommodation general cargo ship? what about 45 in total. That was the size on that type of ship when I started out in 1969 with ocean fleets. One of the biggest departments crew wise was the catering department could never understand that. I am talking about just a general cargo ship not one with 12 passengers. Probably made up of Ch Stwd, 2nd Stwd, Ch Cook , 2nd Cook, Baker, Galley boy, Pantry boy, Sen Officers Stwd, Off stwd , Engs Stwd, Old mans Tiger? inn Blue flu there was even a night stwd.

[j.sabourn]

#8. Must say have never heard of a time limit for an AB . I think EDH was in vogue when I was at sea , and going back to gossip of the time they were on 10/- a month less than an AB. And an AB was said to be an EDH with a lifeboat certificate. All this was purely gossip as I remember. But the manning scale of a vessel was laid out by the BOT and for. This purpose an apprentice with 3 years in was classed as an AB. An AB on paper for manning purposes could be made up say by 2 SOS or so many JOS.so if a manning scale was 9 ABs it could be of various ratings and apprentices. I rather think but may be wrong that cadets didn’t come into the picture ,and once again emphasise the difference between the two. If I remember correctly think it was Elder Dempster or /and other company’s used to send their aspiring ships officers for their EDH Certs.when had the required seatime in , and this knocked any controversy’s on the head. JS.

The only 7 years that spring to my mind is an apprenticeship to be a cooper.
However Brian may be correct as may have been an award to a seaman after 7 years at sea , automatically to get the title AB. Some of the older ABs will know the correct answers . JS

[happy daze john in oz]

Did hear stories here in Oz that GP was being used by some foreign companies to cover all manner of tasks on board.
Catering crew being used to cover deck positions at times.
Not sure how true but was told by one guy in the Seamans Mission in Port Melbourne.

Lewis, baker as well as two cooks, most cargo ships even those with 12 bloods mainly had a second cook and baker, all in one.

[j.sabourn]

#16. John my 11 years on the offshore agreements here , and I think other maritime agreements here were very similar. The only time you carried a much reduced catering staff which sometimes was only the cook , was when the complement exceeded 13. Up to that number the cooking was done by the seamen themselves on a weekly basis of turn about. This was before the IR system was up and running. An iR or what others know as GP was a rating who supposedly could work either in the ER or Deck.. To newcomers to the industry the term bosun was not used ,they were the chief or first IR. I found that the older seamen found these terms hard to come by ,and I was of similar mind , so let them delegate among themselves who was doing what , and saved on the dramas. These were the older ones with seatime in. As said in a previous post however , the maritime union paid for everyone in time to do the IR course at Launceston Nautical College. Some may not have liked it , but there was no other options on offer. As regards stewards was very rare to see as communal messing did not really require , the only ship that I saw no change in manning of old levels, was a Russian ship I had to go on as the official master. It brought back a lot of nostalgia of happier times. Even though they had their idea of communal messing which was all eating in the same room they still carried a full catering staff. And the so called communist rules that most think of as everyone is equal, did not go as far as table seating as believe it or not the Russians are very still as class conscious as the British were supposedly at one time. They even had stewardesses , the marine complement of what could be considered a small ship was 38. This was without the official Australian manning of 9. Cheers JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

I'm with Brian on this one it took 6 -7 years on time scale to become an AB, for Lewis there was no requirement as sea time as such in mates/engineers certificates, it was from the date your rating was entered in your discharge book, after 12 months from that date you were automatically upgraded to the next rating, some remained as SOS for longer until they had chance to go for lifeboat ticket; some Masters would upgrade an SOS to DHU after 12 months, but as I understand it was not legally obliged to. I did note of sarcasm in your comment 'seven years to become an AB' Yes the engine-room is a dangerous place to be, but also is the deck and it needs training to avoid those dangers especially in the days of many derrick ships and jumbos, deck cargoes. Not many from the engineroom or catering deck were asked to go out on deck in force 8 and upwards to go out and secure deck cargo or derricks that had come adrift from heavy seas, and I for one wouldn't want them near me in such a situation. Deckies learn to have that instinct of what is required without instruction and work as a team because in a force 8 and upwards you would not hear any instructions with whistling wind and seas crashing, you worked by hand signals and normally one hand as the other was holding onto something solid if available. Having been in a position of having to secure an adrift vertical jumbo in a storm and climb the foremast with messenger ropes I would not have wanted an engineer, no matter how intelligent or steward no matter how intelligent anywhere near me.

The other persons job is always easy until you have to do it in testing conditions

[Captain Kong]

In the early 50s the wages were
Deck Boy, £10, month
JOS £15 A MONTH
SOS £18 A MONTH
EDH £24 MONTH
INCREASING £1 A MONTH FOR FOUR YEARS TO ABLE SEAMAN CERTIFICATE at £28 A MONTH.
A Bosun was an AB PROMOTED BY THE MATE and usually depending on the company
was paid around £4 a month more,
FACT,. I WAS THERE.

[cappy]

in the catering dept in the 50s and 60s a 5 hatch tramp would carry catering staff of ......chief steward ......second steward two assistant stewards ie saloon ...2 catering boys in the pantry ....onechief cook one second cook and baker ...one galley boy most often.....chief steward for storing and reordering ....second steward looking after the old mans accom......the daily store provision .....the service in the pantry...The boys for engineers and mates cabins mainly juniors .....assistant stewards usually mate and chief engineers cabins ..plus one on 7 bell meals.....plus all involved in sugiing and all accom decks etc .....turn to 6 .30 work through till after lunch mainly 1 or 130.......then back at three till usually 6 pm.....usually 10 hour day ....7 days per week...total 70 hour week.....before overtime.....in tankers old man may have his lunch in forrard accom saloon ...galley boy less hours as food sent out finished probably 2 hours per day less than pantry boys so say 58 hours per week....happy days