Re. A short run job.

[Johnny Kieran]

Cheap labour and fatcats are the cause of many of our problems these days. It caused Brexit, and Brexit is thwarted by the fatcats simply because it's them that run things. You only have to look at the goings on in the US with Trump and co. Then look at Russia with Putin at the helm. It's about owning and running the world, always gone on throughout history.

[Des Jenkins]

Hi John S
A few of us on site benefited from the strong union movement here in Aus and NZ in those days, what makes me weep is to hear seamenrunning it down, bad enough that the shipping company owners where making big profits, but to denigrate seamen who stood up and got a better deal strikes me as jealousy.
Des

[j.sabourn]

#12. I”m not a die hard aggressive union follower Des, but I do know from personal experience that at the end of the day a union of like minded people is essential to have coverage both legal and to push forward advanced conditions of monetary and work and safety conditions . I was a member also of can’t remember which of the MNI or the MIN. After a sea incident I wrote a paper to be published describing the true facts. They refused to publish in case they were sued was their excuse , so I ceased to be a member and sent to the union who had no qualms about printing. I don’t have too much time these days for these so called lettered clubs patting each other on the back with self congratulating statements and charging more than basic union membership.I always signed on British Ships on the A agreement which was classed as a Company Servant , I in no manner of form consider myself a servant to any shipowner, but had to do it this way to accrue paid ticket leave of 12 weeks which couldn’t afford otherwise. Most others did the same unless they came from a family with independent means. I agree that every working man should have the means to show up fully armed if have to go to court with a solicitor for advice if necessary .Yes I certainly agree there is a definite place for Unions especially to keep others honest. JS

[happy daze john in oz]

Over the years various govs have contributed to the demise of Australian shipping.
Offers of better deals with foreign ships moving cargo and the insistence that if Oz seamen where taken as crew in oz ports they must be paid at the oz rate with all the extras.
Far too expensive then.

[j.sabourn]

I can tell you right away John having sailed with foreign flag , that cheaper crews are used to enhance profits.
In 1969 I was sailing as mate on 32 pounds a day as they had to have the certification , the Chinese crew seamen/firemen /catering staff were on 28 pounds a month. we had to go to Hong Kong as a port of refuge and as on HK articles had to close . This break was used by the owners to re-employ philipinos at 26 pounds a day, and this was not a Chinese owned vessel it was European owned, to me gross misuse and exploitation of labour.
The Australian maritime unions would not let such exploitation on their turf. That is one reason why they had to be employed on Australian conditions but only on the understanding that they were Australian citizens. However the various governments since then have once again lost their sense of morals the present near election coming up , people should remember this and ask themselves why in a country like Australia are there any signs of poverty especially in one of the highest taxed countries in the world. If voting was not compulsory I doubt if I would bother. Cheers JS

[j.sabourn]

Errata for philipinos read 26 pounds a MONTH not DAY. JS….

[Johnny Kieran]

I remember getting involved in a discussion about seaman's wages some years back. I listened to complaints from Filipino and Indian seamen, that wondered how the unions could get them on a par with British seamen. First question I asked was "You have to convince people that you're hard done by, and it's very easy to do".
"Just tell us", they said. To which I replied, "How much is your monthly mortgage repayments for your house? plus all your other outgoings in the UK". The discussion basically stopped there and then.

[Tony Taylor]

I remember getting involved in a discussion about seaman's wages some years back. I listened to complaints from Filipino and Indian seamen, that wondered how the unions could get them on a par with British seamen. First question I asked was "You have to convince people that you're hard done by, and it's very easy to do".
"Just tell us", they said. To which I replied, "How much is your monthly mortgage repayments for your house? plus all your other outgoings in the UK". The discussion basically stopped there and then.

very good point Johnny, I have had similar conversations as well and everything is relative to local costs, conditions and climate.
I just read in an American paper about comparisons on toasters and I expected to see costs lower than here but the cheapest one listed was $100 US for something you could get here for £20ish.

[j.sabourn]

My first foreign flag vessel was shortly after the seaman’s strike in 1967 . It meant working from Canada on an American owned Canadian managed cargo ship/passenger vessel running from Montreal to around the West Indies , on a 6 week round trip. It was under Liberian Flag. The contract for me was 12 months. There were two sets of Articles on vessel , British as to wages etc. and Liberian. The crew were Trinidadian and had been there for years on a rotating system as being back home every 6 weeks suited them. However British articles didn’t necessary mean British conditions for example there was no paid overtime. My salary on leaving British Federation wage scale was 101 pounds 12/6d.,per month. On Liberian Articles was $700 US per month. It’s all very well saying that third world crews do not need high wages. A seaman of whatever nationality is a citizen of the world and to all intents and purposes pays the taxes and prices of the country he is in . The other FF vessels I was on that was always the excuse to salary’s it was based on the country of origin , I was pleased in later life that my country of origin was assumed to be Australia. JS

[j.sabourn]

As per a previous post I was the figurehead master of a Russian survey vessel hired for a particular job in Australian waters. On a special agreement the total Russian crew were allowed to stay on vessel during the hire period . Sounds like a deal Trump would have made , as the usual case was only the joining crew stayed , but think the excuse was the cost of putting 40+ Russians ashore in a hotel for 6 weeks. However the Russians I spoke to all from the Ukraine asked me if there was any chance they could get Australian wages whilst on board, the wages they were receiving was about the lowest I have seen or heard of.. However I had to say no as the ship would not be going into any port in Australia whilst they were on board. They must have led a miserable life whilst in Singapore as their salary’s would be lucky to get them through a couple of hours ashore in Singers , even I found it expensive in later life.JS