The demise of the red duster

[john middleton]

I may be wrong, but in the run up to
the election , one of the main talking points
was tax evasion, now correct me if I'm wrong
and I usually am, bur aren't flags of convenience
a blatant tax get out. No wonder the only red ensign is
on on motor boats and trips around the bay.
!n 1982 many seafarers who had been on the beach
for several months were welcomed with open arms
to crew the Falklands fleet, then paid off when it was over.

[Les Woodard]

Sorry about this but I am going right of track with this post as do not think it warrents one of its own. Been looking at loads of photos of old ships and what strikes me is how advanced they where in design. Any one else notice that the bow of earlier ships are so similar to the bolbous bow of modern ships except that they did not have the bulb. Most noticable on very early warships. Was this a throw back from the old trimarns that also had a protruding bow for ramming. Then the design changed to having the racked bow that most of us where on. Oh that flare was something on some of them for sure when painting lol.

[j.sabourn]

#1. Tax evasion was mainly by the rules of the country until certain tax regulations were relaxed somewhat well after I did my stint on foreign flag ships. One had to be out of the country for the fiscal year the same as on a British ship , only the tax was deducted every month on a British ship and had to claim back. On a foreign flag ship it was not deducted and was classed as you being self employed and up to you to prove to the tax man your money earned outside the country. NHI stamps one had to pay as self employed which most of us did. The tax year was April 5 to April 5 and most because of this stayed clear of the country . It was not tax evasion illegally it was tax evasion legally, and many foreign businesses in the UK if anyone used the system were mostly using the law to suit themselves . Tax today for seafarers in the uk is different and are allowed a fixed period in the uk and still excempt as far as I know , but that is going back 34 years . JS.
The biggest con of the lot was travelling expenses which Maggie Thatcher brought back into existence, one could claim tax refund on travel expenses , but she came out with a long distance ruling that this applied only if you were going from your place of business to your work place, so a business man golng to Japan every month could claim but a seaman could not claim and all expenses after 2 trips to the same port of joining was classed as earnings and taxable even though you never saw the money as the ship owner normally got you there. A very conniving woman, maybe some seaman had upset her some time or other ? JS

[Johnny Kieran]

It's all about fatcats. They run most countries, including our own. It's them that tell the lawmakers/bolloticians what they want, loopholes and such. Ship owners are fatcats. They don't want loopholes for the plebs, because it's the plebs that supply all the revenue that keeps the fatcats nice and fat.
Flags appeal to, and were created, only for the plebs, the fatcats have no allegiance to any flags, they created flags for us, not them.

[James Curry]

When I was in BP they flagged the ships in Hamilton Bermuda.
They went on an extensive building programme and new rule was introduced by the UK Gov Tonnage tax discount if they reflagged to the Red Duster (IOM Flag is accepted as British) So they got tonnage tax allowance!!
So they reflagged the ships to the Isle of man flag. BP manned the ships by offices based on the IOM.
Before under Bermudan flag we paid NIC's as self employed , that is if you bothered. Anyway I did,suddenly BP realised they had cocked up as NIC's now had to be class 1 and they would be liable to pay the employers contribution. They successfuly argued with HMG that we were not their employees but were employed through a IOM based agency.
So okay I thought I will still just pay class 2 NIC's.
BP decided to tranfer the manning agency to Singapore so they could officially close the loop hole if HMG came calling again for employers portion of NIC's

I was contacted the DWP Pensions and advised as I was now sailing under the IOM flag I had asking if I was still okay to pay class 2 or pay class 1 NIC's , cannot remember exact figures but under class 2 I paid around about £600 a year that shot up to £4500 after two years I told BP I was leaving and going foreign flag. They said they would tranfers me to the China LNG which BP was a partner.
So 18 months on and off I was builders rep for new buildings.
Ended my days with ADNOC on there LNG fleet.

[j.sabourn]

#1 To clarify that further this mainly was adverse to offshore workers working 4 weeks on and four weeks off , just picking figures out of a hat , say it cost 20 pounds train fare to Aberdeen with no other expenses such as meals taxis accomodation etc. then that was 40 pounds a trip, and 80 pounds after 2 trips , this was tax free. The remaining trips to the same joining port say Eight would be 320 pound added to your earnings for taxable income.
Whereas a businessman at four hundred pound per trip to Japan his expenses was totally free tax wise. Simply because it was assumed he was going from his place of business to his place of business. Whereas a seaman was going from his home to his place of business. Does that make sense to anyone ? It doesn’t to me . But that was the law at that time and era. The only way for an offshore worker to evade this extra taxation was to make sure that he did not join a ship or rig more than twice consecutively in the same tax year. JS
In other words you were simply being taxed for going to work. JS

[James Curry]

If memory serves HMG tried and in some cases nail you for income tax saying if you were standing by a new building it was not a ship but a construction site. It only became a ship when it was in the water and had means of propulsion fitted.
Never worked offshore but did they not screw over rig workers if they were on a static rig that had no means of propulsion?

[Tony Taylor]

If memory serves HMG tried and in some cases nail you for income tax saying if you were standing by a new building it was not a ship but a construction site. It only became a ship when it was in the water and had means of propulsion fitted.
Never worked offshore but did they not screw over rig workers if they were on a static rig that had no means of propulsion?

When I first took my wife away, they calculated the benifit to me of not having to pay for feeding her while she was on board and taxed me accordingly, they also claimed that airfares paid by the company for her were benefit in kind and taxed them accordingly, it galled me no end to see MPs taking jollies all over the world at recess, accompanied by wives and apparently not being charged.

[j.sabourn]

That just shows the two sides of the coin Tony. The ship owner got the benefits on his tax of feeding you and you paid tax for the privilege. Who’s the mug ? As I said once before I had the privilege of working in the office for a couple of weeks when I ran out of leave and was able to look at the audit books for the late 40s and early 50s. Shortly after the war the average trampship earned enough in one cargo to cover the running costs for the remainder of the year. The highest deduction for tax was devaluation on hull and machinery and the lowest was crew feeding and wages . Maybe some say the poor old shipowner having to claim for your having to pay tax on her accompaying you , others tell the truth. The second highest being of course Insurance. Cheers JS

[j.sabourn]

Small piece in WA paper today.” 50% more seafarers wanted in next 5 years “.
Japanese energy giant Inpex and the Maritime Union of Australia have teamed up to warn that the country could face a shortage of seafarers. About 450 will be needed in 2025 alone. Numbers have fallen 23% over the past year, blah blah we are now seeing the demand outstripping supply blah blah in circumstances approaching flash point. This is result of limited training and sustainability of the Australian shipping fleet blah blah.There will be a severe shortage of workers to rebuild offshore wind farms and decommission oil and gas fields. The maritime workforce is ageing and jobs are seen as demanding and hard the report said. They are telling their grannies how to suck eggs we all knew this years ago, they seem to live in a different world.
JS