What is a third officer?

[William Bramhill]

Hello,

I found this cutting in the papers of my late brother Frank Bramhill (ex Ellermans and British Rail cargo ferries). You may find it of interest.

Frank got his master's ticket in the early 1960s but had to leave the sea owing to chronic seasickness. He then worked at Harwich Navyard, Shoreham, Greater London Council, Buoywork at Amlwch and Ipswich Port Authority before a spell as a crown court usher and retirement.

Will

Added for reading hopefully!

What is a Third Officer.jpg

[Fouro]

Hi Will,
After reading that newspaper cutting about the 3rd Deck Officer and his rich upbringing background, apart from the purple.braid.mixed with the gold braid diamond on his sleeve, the working class 4th Engineer Officer shares the same rank aboŕrd ship.

Fouro.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Never saw anything about rich upbringing, saw a lot about dreams, but even us lads from a Council Estate had those!

I smell a bit of oil and water envy there, doubt all 4th engineers were working class, some or a lot would be middle class and perhaps a spattering of upper class, but appears some will never let go of prejudice and their colours come to the fore

[j.sabourn]

And when he finally leaves the bridge , the master gives a sigh of relieve and turns in also ,different beds of course .
JS

[j.sabourn]

Think I lived with that in the 50s Ivan .when I went 3 rd. Mate I was warned off going ashore with engineers by no less than the master , mate .and second mate , I told them I would go ashore with who I wanted . These three same hombres had all sailed together during the war as well , so war or no war it existed before our time also during the war years , it went out the door many years ago and it wasn’t our war heroes who did it. I had 2 cousins at sea who were engineers so they chose the wrong person to try and re-educate. Many years later I was 2nd mate with Cappys best friend and mentor captain Roberts , he caught me coming back up the gangway at 0700 hrs in Japan called me up to his deck and said what’s the idea and what sort of example is this to set the crew. I said I don’t give two tishes what the crew think none of their business .He never questioned me again . In fact often Coming off watch at 0430 a hand often used to shoot out from behind his door curtain with a glass of whiskey in it and his voice saying guess what it is and I”ll give you another , He was just a lonely old man , he was well into his sixties then and everyone gave him a wide berth. I was mate a lot of years off and on ,in fact I preferred it to master when I was young enough to get around the decks.To me a masters job was given for long and faithful service to the company and to suit the occasion of old age. If a young spunktrumpet came on deck and tried to take control , I would walk off it and did so a couple of times . There is no room for two masters on a ship or two mates if it comes to that , each should know by the time they reach those positions the facts of life. Cheers JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

I think most third mates were responsible people being on the first step of the ladder and would not appear on watch stinking of booze, which alas cannot be said of some 2nd and 1st mates appearing on watch, most saved their drinking with their engineroom counterpart when coming off watch, 3m/4E, 2m/3E etc, normally limited to one beer each, conversation limited to generator or radar or something else playing up and then turning in knowing that you had meal relieving duties to perform in a couple of hours, as not all your time off watch was your own. As for going ashore you'd go ashore with your ER counterpart and be joined at times by the R/O depending on his age defined which group he went ashore with, that of course if he wasn't on one of his many tour bus rides to parts that working members of crew didn't have time to visit!!

[Keith Tindell]

John 5, your description of a young officer bought back a few memories, that description, used many many times at sea, and not heard for many years made me laugh.

[j.sabourn]

That applied to British crewed vessels Ivan.I spent a few years on foreign crewed vessels and things changed when you barely had communication . But things and ships still ran . Three British Master, Mate and Chief Engineer , one could communicate as per ship use but could not exchange personal chit chat ones were at extreme ends of different society’s and cultures. Hong Kong Articles May pretend they are a copy of the British , they ain’t.!!! One Hong Kong crew I was with the bosun and third mate we’re brothers the bosun spoke no English whatsoever .his brother the 3 mate spoke pidgin . So mostly explained to him and he told the bosun the days work , and it worked fine ,the 3rd mate had no idea of navigation so I did all his running fixes for him and he used to relive me an hour early at 0700 and 1900 and always a cold beer on my desk when I came off watch..worked that well that the next company I worked with for who greeted me at the top of the gangway but the 3 mate and his brother. I never did work out how they managed that and how they knew where I was Those same two ships and company’s did the dirty on the Chinese however and changed to Indian crews . The Indian 2 mate jumped ship in the Kiel Canal and was never replaced the time I was there and that was just under 11 months .JS

[Mo Docherty]

Does 8by12 watch

[Ivan Cloherty]

I think he means 8 to 12 watch, but not many seafarers would have known that!