What's in a Name? Cadets,Apprentices ,Midshipmen....

[Graham Shaw]

I've taken this discussion oway from the Royston Grange Commemoration Thread as a mark of respect.


Yes,what's in a name ? Apprentice,Cadet or Middy-you still found yourself doing the shi**iest jobs.......and we were naively told we'll never make a good Chief Officer or Master,unless we'd spent a full day 'bilge-diving in all six hatches,or spent 12 hours in port overnight battening down deeptank lids,or half a week chipping the maindeck on a trans-oceanic crossing,when ,after being covered in rust and red lead all day we were still expected to change into pristine whites(which we laundered ourselves) and go down to dinner,or up to the Bridge to assist the C/O in recording his star sight times...
Character-building they called it. "Well,F" that " ! we thought many a time.Anyway,being a cadet in the late sixties and early seventies should have been a lot different from being one in the 40's and 50's-but you try telling that to the company personnel manager or the MNTB(Merchant Navy Training Board) recommendation team..
Most of our characters had been formed long before we went to sea,after all we had had The Beatles,Bob Dylan,Flower Power,Jimi Hendrix Girls burning brassieres,the world was our lobster....we were men at the ages of 17 and 18.
Now I look back on it I can't help feeling how antiquated the system was.It wasn't all really necessary and I often think now how many cadets left after just a few trips.
No wonder it was quite a shock for many of those systemic 'ancient mariners' when containerisation came in or redundancy fell upon them and many of the traditional,often priveleged , trappings of officer rank in the British MN were discarded.

When after qualifying later on,and aboard foreign flag vessels I found it was rather sad in a way to see some of these former 'company men' having to learn new procedures and a whole new mindset and shake off their former attitudes.Some couldn't do that and left quickly ,quite a few who turned to alcohol,and also left-very quikly-and more than a few,happily embraced their new found freedom,-and money, and threw off their former company shackles and thrived very nicely,thank you,and were much better shipmates for it.

[Doc Vernon]

Hi Graham
Not Cadetship, Apprentice etc, but i was just a Lad in School with not too much upstairs at the time.
Only made my Std 6 as it was in them days, then went to Work at Age 15Years 6 Months, in quite a few Jobs to help support Mum, as Dad at that time was away from us!

Anyway i seemed to go pretty well in anything i did, and not Playing my own Fiddle , was well liked in most all my Jobs.
Then to Sea i went , something that i had wished for a long time, and that on top of all that i had allready done, opened my Eyes even more , and gave me the knowledge that i have learnt Today!

So as said its not really on the Subject as such, but just goes to show what can be achieved in life without a so called good Education these days!

Men of the world Smoke Max , Max Ciggs.jpgas the saying went, but we were men of the World allright and did so much .

Would not change things for Quids!
Cheers

[Keith Tindell]

But we were so lucky Vernon, not just the MN life to live, but even ashore so many jobs available, i also left school at 15, no qualifications, but with dedication you could still achieve what ever you put your mind to.Today with University degrees everywhere, we with no qualifications would have no chance. I had a laugh only this Monday, took my Niece to the ferry , she has a university degree, her and her new husband were on their way to Zante on honeymoon, and in the car on the way to the ferry, she made a classic statement * i,ve never been to Greece before, only time i was that way was a weekend in Athens !!!!*, so much for education.

[Tony Taylor]

Hi Graham
Not Cadetship, Apprentice etc, but i was just a Lad in School with not too much upstairs at the time.


So as said its not really on the Subject as such, but just goes to show what can be achieved in life without a so called good Education these days!

Men of the world Smoke Max , as the saying went, but we were men of the World allright and did so much .

Would not change things for Quids!
Cheers

Doc, not having a good education does not mean you dont have a good brain. If you have good brain and utilise it then you can succeed. There are loads of idiots who have had the good fortune to have had a good education and still cant perform.

[Fouro]

My answer is everything.
Your name is your identity, be proud of it and always make sure you keep up with the Joneses.

Regards from
Fouro.

[happy daze john in oz]

I do recall that at secondary school we had the Air Force cadets.
Students who thought they may want to join up when old enough.
Not sure what they did or is any did sign up, but they apparently thought it was a good deal.

[James Curry]

Thinking back to my school days I was more occupied with not getting caught climbing over the locked school gates while giving Alice a leg up and over, a crafty grope and a smoke. Never took life or education seriously until I went away to sea as a Junior Engineer after serving my apprenticeship in Camel Lairds. Joined as 7th Engineer and paid off 21 months later as 4th Engineer. Happy days. My first Bhandaris curry and a chipati never to be forgotten.
Worked hard got my 2nds ticket and got a job as service engineer for MaK engines and lived out of a suitcase travelling the world.

[j.sabourn]

#6. The ATC was the same as the army and sea cadets John. With the exuberance of youth was in them all , the longest was the ATC. Think the bloke in charge must have been in the RAF regiment , because the amount of handling old weapons was much higher than flying in Tiger Moths. The P17 US rifle 1914/1918 issue was his favourite , and anything you want to know about tangerapature backsights or fore sights give me a ring. It fired a .300 round and not a .303 like most British army issue and also had a portable fixture to the firearm for firing a standard grenade. The rifle itself without bayonet and any attachments was about 3 inches longer than me . His other party piece was the sten gun which doesn’t even have a rifled barrel and only has 32 rounds in the magazine , still havent worked out how John Wayne kept firing it without changing the magazine for half the movie. You should know all about the pull throughs after being in Castle Line so won’t reveal the secret of where it was stowed on the rifle. Cheers JS

[Keith Tindell]

I was in the ATC also, mainly to enter the ATC boxing team, i remember the rifle range live fires, and part of the little rym to remember, *you get the tip of the foresight in line with the V of the backsite etc* cannot remember the rest.

[Colin Wood]

I feel sorry for you Graham if that is your experience. Mine, I loved it. It was the camaraderie of the crew, and working together that gave great pleasure. Loved listening toall the stories, lots very tall and often questionable. I had been taught to take a pride in any work I did, and as the senior of 4 apprentices after less that a years sea time, I spent 3 hours a day from Glasgow to Panama using the electric chipping hammer de scaling the main deck, as I had yo lead by example. I also was a member of the ATC before going to king Teds. It meant a warm overcoat for winter, summer camps and the opportunity to not only fly in a Tiger Moth, Stalling in a vertical climb, flopping over and heading earthward and finally the engine starting and continuing the flight. Later flying up the Thames over London in a Gloucester Meteor on a perfectly clear day. Magnificent.
Lovered everything I did at sea, though very discomforted at times. But that is possible how I got command at 29 of a 9900 grt. 24year old tramp out of Hong Kong. Haited leaving the sea, but with a young family it had to happen. Then followed doing everything I had said I would not do at sometime. Pilot, Harbourmaster, Stevedore, Marine Surveyor. Fabulous very rewarding life until I was 70 and had to retire. Would not of changed anything about my working life, only some of my personal life.
Feel sorry for today's seafarers who I think are treated like trash, with all the stupid worksafe health etc. But then I was brought up in the war torn London of the 40's and lived through the blitz and evacuation. Apparently character training.
I feel that we seagoing personnel of the 50's enjoyed a golden age, which could never be repeated.