Why ships crash

[Keith Tindell]

The one thing for definite, the Gyppos would have made a nice little bundle of dollars out of it,

[Frank Thorp]

Hello Ivan.

When i made the comment of it being "an eye opener" I should have made it clear that I was referring to a comment made about the number of serious incidents that we do not hear of.

Frank.

[j.sabourn]

#8.. Ivan I went 13 years as mate on so called British ships and apart from a couple of incidents when had to go master due to a master jumping ship so to speak and another being laid up in a hospital condition , that’s where I chose to be . A master in my terminology went as master when he reached the age where he couldn’t get round the decks and deserved some time sitting back and earning what he had worked for. My attitude changed when I was aware what Was coming into the industry to replace him , and then started taking the position as wasn’t going to take any crap from a book learned master Mariner. The position as mate is where I saw I was of most use. Going as master I expected every 1 mate to have the same attitude as me . Loyalty at sea was always readily accepted if of the right kind. This unfortuanetley disappeared over the years with the new breed that came to claim their inheritance . I saw my time out as I always said I would , but at the end of the day I was glad to get out with part of my brain still intact. When you go master you have to accept responsibilities and the repercussions that may be no fault of your own but that is what you sign up for and have to accept. As you say do it again of course we would the devil you know is always better than the one you don’t. I have really no complaints about my time really, just moans that every seaman is entitled to . Cheers JS...

[Frank Mattocks]

I saw the programme, at least it seemed to try to figure out what happened without all the usual sensational superlatives. There was no mention of DP equipement etc but although what the Admiral said appeared as back covering it's true that pilots are only advisors and the captain is still the captain. The results of the inquiries will be interesting.
The fact that one incident with one ship caused so much aggravation, and can compromise economies, is the price the world pays for having cut every cost to the bone with ULCC's and just-on-time working.

[John Arton]

I watched the program and one interesting fact that came out was that the similar sized vessel ahead of the Ever Given successfully transited the canal by actually slowing down when the wind speed increased the pilots on the Ever Given actually increased speed which as shown quite well on the computer simulation increased the bank effect whereby there was an increase in the forces pushing the bow away from the bank whilst the increase in flow of water down the ship's hull caused the stern to be sucked towards the stern. This hydrodynamic effect on ships hulls in narrow channels is well known and is part of the ship handling lectures to candidates studying for mates tickets. The one thing that captains drummed into me once I became a watch keeping officer was that if in doubt about any developing situation then do not hesitate to slow down in order to give yourself time to be able to correctly assess the situation. Anyone who has attended a bridge management course or has learnt from experienced masters will know that when under pilotage one of the most important things to stress to the pilot is that any conversation regarding communication with the shore and with any of the bridge team should be in a language that all understand. The program did refer to the voyage data recoder when they referred to the Egyptian pilots talking to themselves in their own language prior to the actual grounding, possibly realising that something was going wrong. The Suez admiral with more decoration than a royal Prince to me was very defensive about his pilots when he kept insisting, correctly, that the captain is always in charge but given the situation of a huge vessel in a narrow channel with so called experienced pilots who chatter amongst themselves in their native language then it would take a very confident captain to overule the pilot.
Rgds
J.A.

[Tony Taylor]

There was one comment which made me wonder about who wrote the script, when the commentator stated that the captain of the Maersk Denver reacted quickly and "gunned the throttle in reverse" to avoid a collision, or words to that effect. I wondered just how quickly you could "gun the throttle"
on large bore 10 cyl Sulzer?

[Ivan Cloherty]

Hello Ivan.

When i made the comment of it being "an eye opener" I should have made it clear that I was referring to a comment made about the number of serious incidents that we do not hear of.

Frank.

Understood Frank, thanks I was certain you were referring to something else, but they did make some mistakes, stating that there are 1000 ships plying the oceans, so 2500 incidents looks pretty bad (these include heavy contact with the quay and quay cranes), the last count carried out by IMO in 2020 was 101,000 merchant vessels over 100grt were plying the oceans. Also stating that all cars are now carried in containers which will be news to the operators of the 998 dedicated vehicle and plant (not garden) vessels (IMO 2020) plying their trade around the world. These experts never do the research properly and it all so readily available these days, so programmes like this spread misinformation which will be taken as gospel and will be quoted by others

[Keith Tindell]

Another comment which left me wondering, the guy who was grizzling his cargo of fridges and catering gear, that was late, stated he had to pay an extra $25000 i think was, because of the cost of refloat, would his cargo not have been insured for the voyage. i have no knowledge on this subject.

[Tony Taylor]

Another comment which left me wondering, the guy who was grizzling his cargo of fridges and catering gear, that was late, stated he had to pay an extra $25000 i think was, because of the cost of refloat, would his cargo not have been insured for the voyage. i have no knowledge on this subject.

Keith, it depends on the terms of sipping the goods, but even if he wasnt insured I dont understand how they could charge him for that.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Tony the charges made will probably have accrued under 'General Average' where-in all consignee's goods which arrive safely at the port of destination shall contribute to any salvage costs incurred by the shipowner on a pro-rata basis, although £25,000 does seem a bit steep for a declared value of goods at £75,000. His insurance will only have covered damage in transit or total loss under the Carriage of Goods Act. If you have sleepless nights then I can recommend 'Chartering and Shipping Terms' (518 pages) and also 'Business and Law for the Ship Master' (898 pages) which have more than 100 pages between them to enlighten one on the subject