Time used at sea.

[j.sabourn]

#52 Most of the engineroom alarms I heard at sea were the high level bilge alarm . Refresh my memory Vic if you cancelled this alarm then when you put it back on it would just sound again. What was the procedure until you got the bilge level down. You couldn’t very well pump the bilges out going into port. Was it just having to remember the alarm was off ?
A friend of mine who was chief with me and an ex lecky went back to rejoin a ship in Lerwick , I had refused to rejoin and was not too long after the piper A where the recommendations for larger crews were out and they had further reduced them.Anyhow he went back and I didn’t as he didn’t have the 72 hours notice in hand..He joined the bilges were full he ordered a shore tanker to pump into ,the company cancelled, they went to sea ,had an engine room fire, he set of the Halon system and put out ,went back into Lerwick on one engine ,he was sacked with the stipulation that they would give him a good reference if he took the blame. Hard to believe I know . I didn’t ask him if it solved the problem with the oil in the bilges. JS

[j.sabourn]

#61 Lewis was that when manouvering on heavy oil.? The Doxfords that I mostly sailed on you changed over to diesel at least an hour beforehand for engine manouvering. That is of course if they had been converted to burn heavy.
The old but not so old steamer I was on which was the ex Irish Elm burned Bunker C not a good advert for today’s panic climate change., you pointed her roughly in the right direction and off you went and if had a following wind had to come 15 degrees off course every so often to see what was ahead. JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

If the master and the pilot cannot bring a vessel alongside in a confident manner they should not be on the bridge. .

We can go round and round in circles with this oil and water mix not mixing. However there may have been an unforeseen incident which caused a flurry of engine movements, something gets inbetween the ship and quay, a gust of wind, depth of water under the vessel, another ship's movements, the way the vessel sat in the water, a delay in response to an engine request. I always remember the case of the Master under inquiry for hitting another ship in the Royal Docks London. Trinity House Elder Brethren had set out a miniature dock and vessels, the Master let them ramble on telling him what he should have done, when they'd finished, he took a box of matches and emptied all over the display and said 'those are barges, shall we start again' he kept his ticket. Lewis you won't be old enough to remember the docks in London and the number of ER movements to get through them the constant stopping and starting to avoid damaging your propeller, because London barges had free reign and the 'Thames watermen' could let them drift anywhere without sanction. It's easy to judge if you don't know all the circumstances. FWE

[vic mcclymont]

Ivan, engineers were down below on standby.
Lewis, ours was a retro fit, big electronic panel, no additional switches fitted to the main engine panel/
Vic

[Lewis McColl]

This , you won't be old enough is getting annoying , I spent 43 years at sea. I suspect a lot longer than most on this site. I have been in and out of most ports in the UK locking in and out in Liverpool , Birkenhead and others. I have been on General cargo vessels that were built in the 40's right through to LNG, Product Tankers , Chemical carriers, ships built in the 2000's. I have sailed on RoRo's , Bulkers, VLCC's/ULCC's Steam and Motor, , LPG's LNG's Steam and Motor. Even doing a simple thing like a lifeboat ticket the was to avoid as many engine movements as possible, Steady as she goes nice and slowly does it. I am sure some may smile. Everyone is an expert, but there again perhaps some have done more than most as regards being on the receiving end of the ships telegraph. You could tell those who could get a ship along side and those that struggled.

[John Arton]

First trip to sea, I was on the wheel going up the mersey to berth at Tranmere north oil terminal, the south Terminal having been demolished by a tanker some months previously. Approaching the terminal mid stream and preparing to swing and berth port side too, guys making their way towards us to be made fast after the swing. The ship was less than a year old and had bridge control of main engine, which captain was very proud of. So hard a starboard wheel, quick burst of half ahead to start the swing, then midships, stop engine and half astern to halt ahead motion and assist swing to starboard. Everything going fine so stop engine and make fore and aft tugs tugs fast. 2mate turns the bridge control knob to stop but nothing happens, ship now gathering sternway towards the opposite shore. Frantic call to chief engineer in engine control room,
"Chief, the engine won't stop!)
Chief engineer reply, "so what do you want me to do?"
Frantic request, "stop the bloody thing"
Engine room takes over control and next order was Full Ahead as the opposite bank was fast approaching. Astern motion halted but next thing headway is on and we are starting to get a bit to close for comfort to our berth, hard a starboard wheel, tugs, by this time 4 in attendance, pushing or pulling like crazy and we just managed to get round clear of the jetty but the shore guys had done a runner thinking that we were going to hit. Eventually got tied up safely but lots of brown trousers moments. Never saw bridge control used on her again in the twelve months I was on her. It was only years later when I was mate that I ever sailed with bridge control again and that was on maiden voyage of new build B&W bulker.
Rgds
J.A.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Lewis I certainly am not disrespecting your sea service, ability or anything else relating to it, far from it, on your seagoing life I have nothing but respect for. I was commenting on the fact that if you are on the ER plates you cannot see what is happening at bridge level. When you're in an enclosed dock the Master defers to the Pilot's advice on engine movements, whilst technically the Master remains in command. My comment on London Docks was meant as a comparison of why incessant movements, no other docks in the UK allowed unregulated barge abandonment which in reality is what it was. When a barge was full (or empty) they just cast it aside from the ship's hull to drift in the dock and brought in another to replace it, some even blocked the lock gates, not easy to manouver a 10/15000 vessel through that lot without a lot of stop and starts, and I've been on the bridge phone when that telephone from the ER comes through 'tell the bloody pilot he's enough air for three more starts' So relax buddy no aspersions intended, just relating experiences, well as for the age thing, I only wish I was as young, but then perhaps not, I would have missed the great times. Hope you have your 'Still' finished by the time they've finished the new tunnel from Scotland to Belfast so we can come to the grand opening. Cheers

[cappy]

####phoo bet you have a wooden leg and a parrot ...lol but how would you have been with a tatty peeler.......cappy

[j.sabourn]

I said years ago that everyone is the same That went to sea as everyone had one thing in common that is the one thing the sea, but everyone has different experiences and everyone thinks that they know it all.No one does it would take 3 lifetimes to get anywhere near it . To steer a ship you are operating a valve nothing more nothing less And your steering skills depend on your concentration, A real helmsman with real skills uses a steering oar. Anyone with an hours tuition can steer a ship. The telemotor system was devised years before most of us went to sea and the maintainance and upkeep of the same is more important.As regards seamanship this is passed on by others the same as everything else on a ship , we all have knowledge which we have carried on using by our wanting to know
.There are no such things as experts at sea , there are just people who listen, observe and follow the rules. Exactly the same as any other profession. ashore or anywhere else.JS.

[Lewis McColl]

#52&61 John concerning bilge alarms, It was possible to disable alarms. When going UMS part of the procedure was to test bilge alarms among others including the dead man alarm. The duty engineer would if he could or had any sense would pump the bilges either through the OWS overboard or pump oily bilges to the bilge holding tank for discharge ashore. I think the current limits for bilges to be pumped overboard via the OWS is 15 PPM. It was not unusual to disable certain bilge alarms but never the aft bilge well, which was usually the biggest bilge well in the engine room. We used to keep a book in the control room called the Alarm book in which you would enter which engine room alarms you had disabled and also the same book you would enter when the alarm was enabled again. On some ships the alarm console could show which alarms were disabled. As part of Planned maintenance all engine room alarms would be tested on a weekly, monthly, 3 monthly 6 monthly and annual basis(Alarm print outs retained for inspection). It is part of a classification society requirements so the vessel can retain it's UMS certificate
#61 Yes on Doxfords and older tonnage we would change over to Diesel oil for standby. But today vessels remain on fuel oil unless there was planned maintenance to do on the fuel system. If you were changing injectors you just stayed on Fuel oil. Think the first ship I sailed on that we stayed on Fuel oil was a new build 1985 the FP Clipper, she was also the first ship I sailed on that the generators were also on fuel oil and even when you shut down a generator it stayed on fuel oil. Pain in the **** as fuel racks were for ever sticking. I have had occasions when you wanted to stop a generator it would slow down but you had to go and see which fuel pump was sticking on and keeping the engine idling. I was never a fan of generators running on fuel oil especially if running on light load. It is far better when you are running a genny at 90% load and the T/C is screaming it's head off.