D.h.u.

[j.sabourn]

On the other sign of the coin were ex RN personnel who if they had a commission were issued with a Masters or 1st. Class (Eng) cert. of Service, (not Competency). This enabled them to serve as Master or Chief Engineer. To me on Deck I did not consider this at all appropriate. What a Naval officer Knows about loading grain, rice or any cargo for that matter, I would imagine is zilch. Regarding most aspects of MN skills would also be to me negative. I believe it was and is coming back to the old boy system, as regards engineers they will have their own views on this. I did sail with a chief Engineer out of the RN a Lieutenant and an ex stoker, he reckoned he was the oldest commissioned lieutenant in the Navy, nice bloke but totally oblivious to MN practices, as an engineer I wouldn't know. I did sail with an ex Lieutenant Commander in the North Sea, he tried to tell 2 ABs how to put a splice in a wire, and got a punch in the eye for his trouble. Still spoke to people as though he was still in the RN. However what I have seen the Naval officers were totally incompatable to MN systems, others may have found different. Cheers John Sabourn

[Ivan Cloherty]

#41 I also sailed in the 50's with two ex Lt Commd'rs who were given Master's tickets, didn't learn anything from them, nobody ever discovered what branch of the Navy they served in, didn't seem to be anything related to the deck

[robpage]

My experience of ex RN ratings and POs is a good one , Ex RN Officers were generally about as much use as a rubber spanner , and the engineering branch less useful than a billiard table on a fishing boat

[j.sabourn]

My experience with Naval Officers in their own sphere of work was probably very good, but their own sphere was very insular. As Rob says the ships were run from what I saw from the P.O.s and leading hands. Naval officers were very good at socializing. Were proficient and well articulated and could probably impress most by the knowledge that they had. They were in the main though specialized and this included the seamanship branch. It was the Navy that taught them this way, so probably not their fault. However I could also add to the disparaging remarks as ... As much use as a spare ..... at a wedding. Wouldn't carry him for ballast. etc etc.The one thing they did have though was a sense of discipiline, which you find throughout the armed forces, most merchant seamen would question if they were doing the right thing, a naval person would do regardless. Often wondered if you told one to jump over the side if he would do. However the RN will soon be as low in numbers as the MN if things carry on the same way as the past 25 years or so. Will have to fall back on the sea cadets. Cheers John Sabourn

[John Arton]

Never sailed with a D.H.U. so cannot comment. Only ever sailed on 3 ships with a full British complement, Beaverfir and Beaverpine, Empress of England.
On the Fir we had a J.O.S on his first trip and 0130 in the morning in Antwerp there was only me (2nd trip cadet) and him on board, everyone else ashore in Ermas, Ringo or Dannys bar.
Had to close hatches after cargo work so him and me set to closing the hatches. Last one to be closed was no.3 which required us to top the derrick in order to get the length of pull required to close the hatch cover (Macgregors). The J.O.S was tending the bull wire from the dolly winch to the cargo winch drum end whilst I was driving the winch. The positioning of the driving position meant that I could not see the drum end or the dolly winch. All was going well, derrick was being topped nicely when the J.O.S allowed riding turns to develop on the barrel end and did not tell me to stop. Tension came on the bull wire to such an extent that it snapped and for some unknown reason the J.O.S. had lifted the pawl bar on the dolly winch so that when the wire snapped the derrick came crashing down and landed over the ships bulwark with the head block stopping just short of the roof of the barges cabin that was moored alongside us. Got the hatch closed by rigging another bull wire and using the other derrick (union purchase rig at each end of the hatch) to close the hatch. Got ashore around 0230, woke Pablo the bosun up in Ermas to tell him first job in the morning was to unship and land for repair the bent derrick. He said it was already on the dock. No I said, that's the one the boys dropped when we were sailing from Vic. Docks. Pablo used some rather choice language, ordered a few more beers, rounded up a couple of the boys and by 0800 we had both derricks unshipped and ashore awaiting repair. Strangely enough cannot remember getting a bollicking from anyone, just the comment that I bet the next time you will take more care. The J.O.S. was sh**ting himself thinking he was going to get the sack but I told him not to bother as it was my fault for not paying enough attention and not talking him through the procedure of handling wires on drum ends.
As regards ex. RN guys, only ever sailed with one who was an ex. submariner who was doing this time in order to get his engine room watch keeping certificate. AS is usual in the RN he had specific duties alongside his general duties as an electrician and his had been to be in charge of the maintenance of the deck gun. The joke always used to be what qualifications do you need on a submarine in order to be in charge of the deck gun, with the answer being to be able to hold your breath for long periods. He was a smashing fellow with loads of stories about life on submarines but after the naval restrictions on alcohol consumption at sea found that an open bar on a merchant ship a bit too tempting, to such an extent there was a chalk outline on the bar deck that was his designated sleeping spot, probably something to do with not being able to sleep in his single cabin after years having to hot bunk on a submarine, or then again it could have had a lot to do with the amount of booze he used to drink nightly.
rgds
JA