Ship Building in the U.K.

[cappy]

rigger to me your attitude is that all the bosses are thieves ......all the unions are the saviours of the working man......if a person or group of persons did not start a business where would the jobs come from .....the union man in my life and I am73 has been the death of the working man .......great industries brought down by indoctrinated persons usally of a communist type ......like scargillwho led the mining communities to there doom .......slater the seamens union...red rob the car industry...etc etc .............grangemouth was losing millions .......what did the unions do take it to the brink .....give there membersthe anxiety of losing there work .....but the fat cats in the union would haveben the only ones who lost nothing........why don't the unions with there many millions start in industry .....and give the people who have paid union dues all there lives......and now have no jobs .....work .....never wanted anybody to tell me what I was worth I know myself.......and I certainly don't want some bloke on average as as thick as two short planks to tell me what to do ......the writing is on the wall for british industry.....and I must say I fear for the future of my children .grandchildren and this once great country.....don't know now what union a rigger would be in today but I bet your union man still has his job ...regards cappy

[Captain Kong]

I was a member of unions for 60 years, NUS and Mnoa now Numast ,
I never got anything out of them, the NUS ones were bent and corrupt, Everytime I went to see them with a kick , `Sorry Lads, me hands are tied, `
When I was off the Pool after the strike in 1960, Paddy Magrath in Liverpool the Union Man and well known street fighter, said to me , `Give us a tenner and I`ll get you back on.`, This berstered was supposed to get me back on anyway as my representative, I took him round the back of the Pool and filled him in. left him in a heap on the deck.
He lost his credibility that day. I then got a Pier Head Jump on the Emp. of France.
In 1954 the same guy tried it when after missing a ship in Jamaica, `Give us a fiver and I`ll get you back on.`
I even tried to use the Unions Legal Services against ship owners, same answer, Sorry Lad, me Hands are tied, `
Those Union Reps had more lashings on their hands than Houdini.
They always sold us down the river,
They eventually joined up with RMT, another bent bunch, all Marxists and Communists, "The Working Class Can Kiss My Ass, I`ve Got The Union Job At Last"
WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE ASSETS OF THE NUS?????
All the investments , millions, All the properties world wide, Etc. Etc, No one has an answer for that,
One day when all the employers have shifted their investments and jobs overseas, and Everyone is on a Futile Job Seekers Allowance, The Union Man will say `Sorry Lads, ME HANDS WERE TIED,`
Brian.

[j.sabourn]

Brian agree with what you say. As in any other walk of life there are the good and the bad. As regards with Trade Unions I would cease to trust them past the shop floor level, or at least keep a close eye on them, as they are obviously going to make a political career out of it. There are enough wankers in government positions as it is. The average working man is not militant to the extent as some portray them, and just ordinary people wanting a fair days pay for a fair days work. However you will always get the people outside this area, at sea we used to call them sea lawyers, and I have had my ups and downs with them afloat as well as some of the reps ashore. However on the whole found I could work with them and never felt I was being forced into any decisions. I have had a crew out here demand shore accommodation on bringing a vessel in from abroad totally unfounded claims, told them to get down the gangway if they wanted and I was going to bed, and gave them the phone number of the owners. They did not take it any further. I could give you numerous instances of my run ins with the NUS,(UK) some of the complaints were genuine and I agreed with, those that I didn't, they certainly didn't get their own way. I would class the Union Movement as at present a necessary (evil) to keep things in perspective, but as continually say would never vote for any ex union officer to a seat in parliament. Cheers John Sabourn

[Jim Brady]

Brian,companies using foreign countries is nothing todo with unions it's todo with money!!!If you were a ship owner and you wanted a new ship which was $10million cheaper to build in South Korea than the UK and a good job at that where would you have it built???When was the last shipbuilding (whats left of it )strike in this country.
Regards.
Jim.B.
All these banks and different companies opening call centres in India etc,they dont care that the customer cant understand a word that the Indian or other Asian is saying,they are in that country to save money.Look what these big shops are doing in Pakistan,factories collapsing and killing people and todate many of them have not had any compensation,why because they have'nt got a voice they are nobody and life is cheap.

[Keith Tindell]

I agree Jim, take any problem, anywhere, and what it all boils down to in the end, is money or power, and sometimes both. You will see in the coming months little sweeteners being given to us all by the government, just with the election coming up, that they hope will keep them in power and getting bloody good money, regards KT

[Captain Kong]

Hi Jim,
the Unions in this country were a necessity at one time for the workers but the Unions got greedy, the Unions were getting political power, and they saw the rewards for themselves.
Look at Red Robbo who destroyed the car industry in the midlands, Jack Dash who destroyed the Dockers Jobs in London, Scargill who closed down the pits. All of them made themselves Rich and Wealthy lifestyles for life.
They didnt give a damn about the workers, they used them and exploited them for theeir own benefit, just as much as employers did,
McCluskey is of the same ilk.
Cheers
Brian


I am off to sunny Fleetwood for a few days.
. PS .
The house Nexr door has just been burgled for the fourth time this year, last time only two weeks ago,Windows smashed computers stolen again and again.[ not He**]
the lady is heart broken. The cops caught them in twenty minutes Three of them.
These lads were our own working class heroes. stealing off their own class,
It is not just the rich employers who make money from the workers it is our own bastards who do it.
They will be out on bail by 12 oclock.

[Jim Brady]

Brian,with respect you are living in the past,and who knows these people that you mention thought it necessary at the time to call the men out on strike for better pay and conditions,and maybe they set a precedent for the future.I was always against unions myself at one time.A story I recall,two Liverpool dockers passing each other on the other sides of the road.It was a nice spring day one shouted to the other "I see the daffodils are out" to which the other guy shouted back "How does that affect us" that how things were many years ago.
Here is a quote from todays paper.
Even Royal Navy
tankers are being made in
the vast shipyards of
South Korea now as cost
dictates everything.
Portsmouth will be
remembered for its
historical ties to our
maritime traditions.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Captain Kong]

Hi Jim
Ship building and many other industries are now in the past. After that Lima Agreement to shift all our industries to the 3rd world Britain will never be the same again.
The wages and conditions in UK have to compete with the wages and conditions in the 3rd world.
In the 50s we had it all, different ball game today.
I have to go SHE is screaming we are late, off to jolly old Fleetwood, a once prosperous town destroyed by the european union, mass unemployment there, with the loss of its Fishing Industry.
Cheers
Brian

[vic mcclymont]

What people seem to forget is that the UK shipyards taught foreigners including the Japanese how to build ships. In the 1960's for instance Court Line and Lithgows, teamed up to show the Koreans how to build ships.
Court Line through its subsidiary AP, laid out the vast Doosan shipyard, whilst Lithgows taught them the building techniques.
They only thing we didn't export was the working practices , so much loved by the unions.
The above is one example of how the UK taught foreign shipyards, there are many instance that I could quote.
Such as where the UK yards took an idea developed it and made it better than the original.
Sadly shipbuilding is in rapid decline.
Vic

[Red Lead Ted]