Union Jack.

[Jim Brady]

Vexillologists (experts on flags ) have now decided that the Union Flag and the Union Jack are one and the same thing.The Union Flag does not have to be flown from the Jackstaff of a warship before it becomes the Union Jack.So using flag or jack is now acceptable.how much it cost to find that out I don't know.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[vic mcclymont]

Are they experts Jim, as both flags are different?
The Union Jack flown at the Jackstaff has a white border, the Union flag has no border.
Vic

[John Adamson]

I thought the Union Flag with a white border was called a Pilot Jack

John

[Hugh]

The Union Flag hoisted at the Jackstaff is called the Union Jack and is always hoisted at the Jackstaff on HM ships. The Union Flag with the white border is called the Pilot Jack and would never be flown on the Jackstaff of HM ships in commission. I have seen the Pilot Jack flown on Sea Cadet vessels but to date I have never seen it flown from the Jack of a traditional merchant vessel.

Regards
Hugh

[Ivan Cloherty]

We always flew the Pilot Jack for'd on all PSNC ships I sailed on, also flew them on the Ropner Vessels, although we called the Union flag with a white border the Jackstaff. It was a common practice on a lot of MN vessels, especially those on Liner trades, some companies flew a small House Flag on the stem jack instead

[j.sabourn]

Ivan Flag etiquette as we knew it no longer exists. Like most things I suppose it is no longer considered important. All things we considered of importance moral and proper has bit by bit gone down the gurglar. Will perhaps still see on passenger vessels as something to keep the passengers attention and amused enough to ask about from some all important and well informed crew member, if he knows about that is. Such as the order of precedence the ensign always being first up and last down. Those that do fly ensigns in port now just leave up now, and no one seems to care. Flags such as courtesy probably in some cases on wrong yardarm as have a 50/50 chance of getting right. All things that we were taught by our seniors at sea, is no longer there as no one left to tell. Cheers John Sabourn

[Keith Tindell]

In the 50-60s, even company ships used to dip to each other, to the more senior captain of the fleet. I posted some time ago on th e Elbe on the way to Hamburg at some point (we called it bull**** corner), the ship inward bound would have its national anthem played, and in return we would dip the ensign, i suppose all gone now. KT

[Ivan Cloherty]

In the 50-60s, even company ships used to dip to each other, to the more senior captain of the fleet. I posted some time ago on th e Elbe on the way to Hamburg at some point (we called it bull**** corner), the ship inward bound would have its national anthem played, and in return we would dip the ensign, i suppose all gone now. KT

Yes Keith, it probably was bull**** corner, but inwardly it gave us a sense of pride in getting it right, and sometimes as youngsters we were prone to pranks, especially with the grey funnel fleet, as you knew they would be watching your stern to see if anyone was attending the ensign, if they saw no one then they kinda relaxed. We used to hide behind the mooring winch until the last possible moment then dash out at the last possible moment to dip to them, it was amusing to see some grey funneller dashing madly down aft to dip their ensign. On £6 a month you had to get your fun
somehow!

Whilst assembling for the Suez invasion in Limassol we were anchored amongst numerous grey funnel ships, to us flag etiquette was very important aboard our ship and flags had to be raised in sequence at 0800 at which time the bell was rung on the foc'le on a signal from the bridge, the same procedure was practiced by the senior grey funnel ship anchored near us, after about ten days we got a signal which read 'You have the watch' and they never rang again and left it to us, it may have been bull****, but what a sense of pride that gave us, and also me, who was on the bell a sense of fear, in case I got the rings wrong. We also blew a whistle at sunset to lower the flags. Alas as said previously, all disappeared with other traditions we loved.

[Keith Tindell]

Hi Ian, Your post reminded me some 40 years ago i was sailing with a guy from work in his 23 ft yacht, and he was able to fly the blue ensign, only courtesy of his wife who was in the RNR. Whilst sailing up Southampton water toward Marchwood, a RN ship, not sure what type, but quite large, came down Southampton water, our workmate reached over the stern of this little yacht, and dipped the ensign, on the warship a poor old matelot had to scuttle aft and return the dip. I suppose the skipper of the warship had no idea if the blue ensign belonged to some senior ex RN officer. I remember being quite embarrassed KT

[cappy]

while sailing in a 36ft westerly a fine yacht of the west coast of Scotland.......we were in quite a mist ......the owner an ex naval commander who I can assure certain people was not an r sole was below....the mist cleared slightly....and a slight breeze grew stronger ...I saw the shape of a bloody great nuclear sub dead ahead....I shouted for him to attend the cockpit but when he came up the mist was backand nothing to see ......there are nosubs in this area ses he ,,stay on the same course ......I am not happy said iit was a sub ......the mist cleared again and there was this big black barsteward about 300 yards ahead as there was so little wind he shot off below to put the engine on and althougha oxford speaking person I can remember to this day him shouting keep away from her they are all effin mad on those effin things.....but I must say they are frightening vessels to look at specially coming out the fog ....they are believed to have seen the end of a few trawlers regards cappy