Engineroom

[j.sabourn]

There must be engineroom staff not too far back when they retired. When I first went to sea the E.Rooms last resort to fire was steam smothering. Then came C02, then for some reason I forget this was taken out and Halyon was introduced, this was then found to be defective for reasons that dont come to me at the moment. What do they use now. Is there a law governing what apparatus is used in E.R. spaces. I refer to British Ships. The foreign ships I was on prior to retiring still had the C02. Regards John Sabourn.

[robpage]

There must be engineroom staff not too far back when they retired. When I first went to sea the E.Rooms last resort to fire was steam smothering. Then came C02, then for some reason I forget this was taken out and Halyon was introduced, this was then found to be defective for reasons that dont come to me at the moment. What do they use now. Is there a law governing what apparatus is used in E.R. spaces. I refer to British Ships. The foreign ships I was on prior to retiring still had the C02. Regards John Sabourn.

The UK Regs are at http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/ch07r2.2_1...llations-4.pdf

The Halon substitutes are



NOVEC 1230 95% in <10 sec 5.5% concentration
FM200 95% in <10 sec 9% 8.7% concentration
HALOTRON IIB 95% in <10 sec 12% concentration
Carbon Dioxide 85% in <2 min 40% concentration
Inergen 85% in <2 min 34.9% concentration
Argonite 85% in <2 min 48%concentration

Steam smothering had caused several deaths over the years , the distribution was poor , and the steam could be generated in the very place that you were trying to smother

As you can see from the table you need 40% flooding of CO2 but only 5.5% Novec so you carry 25% of the quantity , reducing weight , storage etc. That is why Halon was introduced . but that is now totally banned by the EEC

[j.sabourn]

Was in the back of my mind that Halon was taken away as was considered poisonous. However see the EEC have their neb in which means absolutely nothing to ships outside the EEC, and as most general shipping is outside their so called authority wont apply in any case. Where would we be without the beaurocrats. Thanks John Sabourn

[Tony Frost]

Halon was banned because it effects to the ozone layer (not posionous,reason for its use. I'm living proof)) went back to CO2.Never been on a ship with Steam smothering (only for scavange fires).I was on one ship(SAND HARRIER) with Halon.We had electic heaters on in the ER one was faceing the Halon bottle,the heat had expaneded the gas in the biottle and it escaped though the bursting disc and the reduced pressure set of an ER alarm.To answer it you had to get to the ECR (though the gas) to see what it was.(Later changed to an external alarm) We were told when Halon when mixed with heat it turns to musted gas!

[Capt Bill Davies]

It would be interesting to hear the views of membership on their perceptions of Engineers employed in the coastal trade and those on the larger ships in the premier (he says, tongue in cheek)shipping companies.

A ship manager friend said the difference was great and quoted an incident on a coaster about 3000 dwt crossing Biscay when a cylinder head stud broke causing the C/E recently made redundant from Blue Star stopping the engine and demanding advice.

Apparently, his coasting colleagues would have stopped the engine acquired a stout piece of timber , say 3 x 3, and positioned this over the broken stud (removed from chc) and wedged free end to ER bulkhead or somewhere similar. It did the job and allowed the ship the go the extra day to Lisbon where the 'stud' was extracted(drilled out).

A small aside, I found the Greek Engineers were very good at innovative repairs and some I witnessed some on vessels +400K that would raise hairs on the back of your neck. It did mine.

Bill

[Ivan Cloherty]

Sounds familiar Bill, coasting and/or shortsea men down below, always had a "Not in the Book" solution to most problems down below some involving candles, brassiers and chunks of wood. Took a lot of Greek ships on Time Charter during my time in Dubai and doing on hire surveys came across a lot of "Heath Robinson" contraptions, but as long as the vessel performed at the speed and consumption in the Charter Party it was not for me to question their practices, and they kept the ships running even though the owners were reluctant to send spares, they seemed to relish the challenge.

[Bluestarmike]

We replaced a main engine piston one time in mid Atlantic, so not a coastal ship! Our Second's mantra "Fix it or F$%& it"