Foreign nationals on British ships

[leratty]

Happy daz John in Australia, you are spot on about Aus wages John we had over a hundred working for us there around 6-7 years ago, could not justify it tried to negotiate with two unions to no avail so closed Co down. Relocated to this part of the world now do same amount of work per annum with less than thirty five! Oh & all are happy to work six days a week with extra time for holidays. No not all local workers on low wages either. A friend with a very successful biz in pipe line, tunnelling & undersea work throughout the region + M/E knocks back work in Aus as can not justify the wages, nor conditions. A good Geordie lad we went to uni together. Most of his employees are UK/EU/Aus/NZ, go figure one muses?
Mining industry there now have fly in fly out off shore workers for I suggest same reason?

[Capt Bill Davies]

Foreign nationals on British ships is of course nothing new. I would say all, or most of the British companies favoured one nationality (non British) in some elements of their operation. The China boats were flexible in the Deck and Catering ratings in that it could be British or Chinese. They were however, inflexible in their Engine Room ratings . They were always Chinese.
The British Flag of the day being a common FOC may have a full crew none of whom have ever seen the skies over the UK. There may of course be the token Brit Cadet, from one of our dare I say Nautical Colleges, which attempts to give respectability to the whole sham.

There is of course a flip side of the coin. I can go back over 40 years where I was Master of ships where the Crew List would be at odds with Monrovia on the stern. Every person on board was BRITISH and some, not all, had Christian names long forgotten on these shore. Nonetheless the full crew were indeed British although I was the only European on board.

Brgds

Bill

[j.sabourn]

Bill at one time I worked for Whitco Marine (believe a few on this site did as well) This was in the 70"s we had a company meeting in a London hotel for 3 days this was discussing Company management, the DTI were also represented. Many things were discussed too many to illustrate here. However one subject was raised with the various figures etc. All the various flags were raised re the running costs etc. The only cheaper flag than the British was the Greek Flag, and this was by a very small margin. So in the 70"s the British flag was still very competative. When you describe the British Flag as a FOC I know what you are talking about as indeed we were a FOC to other maritime nations. Others on this site may not see it as it is. I still wonder to this day why the British Registry was discarded as know we were as cheap and cheaper than most in running costs. This must have been a government decision for whatever reason they thought justifiable. Best Regards John Sabourn.

[Keith Tindell]

In the early 60`s, i was on the Baltic Trader, a well known British company, our home port was Hamburg, and every six months broke articles there. The crew were mainly German, except for deck officers, who were brits. the only time i was on her !5 months we broke articles in London, and the German crew all re-signed on. The Germans did not hold AB tickets or lifeboat tickets, i also re-signed on. I dont know how that was allowed, other than the fact at that time there was no shortage of jobs. KT

[Captain Kong]

I have never sailed with a Foreign crew except in Blue Funnel where the catering and down below crew were Chinese.
I have sailed with the odd foreigner within the crew. A dutchman, a Maltese and so on.
The one I disliked was an Iraqi 2nd Mate.
I was Master of a ship where the joining shackle of the anchor had somehow worked its way loose and the anchor was hanging on about half an inch of shackle pin.
We were at sea at the time in the Channel, we were going to lose the anchor, so as no one would go over the wall to secure it, I went over with two eyes of mooring ropes and hooked them around the anchor flukes and made fast.
I went alongside in Southampton, ordered a crane and got the crowd out. The Iraqi 2nd Mate was sat in the crew mess room watching TV, I said , come on Abdul get your boiler suit on. He never showed on deck I went back , he is sat in the crew messroom wearing a boiler suit watching TV, Get on deck , I shouted. He says , you tell me to out boiler suit on, I have put boiler suit on. and never took his eyes off the TV screen. Smart ass. I dragged him out and on deck, with several choice words cannot repeat here.
We are all on the focsle. The Mate was turned in watch below. The crane is here with chain slings. We were going to land the anchor on the jetty and then fix a new joining shackle.
No one would go over the wall, I told the Iraqi, get over the wall and fix the sling, the screams were terrible , I cannot swim he was shouting, the `ABs`said we might fall in and get wet.
My god what is the game coming to when seafaring men are scared of getting wet.
I went over had a pilot ladder, and stood on the anchor fixed the chain slings and relased the two mooring ropes that secured it, then came back on deck. [I must admit I enjoyed doing it, ]

See my Avatar, that is the photo one of the "ABs" took. Good photographers , lousy useless Seamen.
The crane took the weight and then we lowered away on the windlass as the crane heaved away and then landed it on the quay where we fixed it.
The Iraqi was useless as a navigator and useless in every other capacity. I got rid of him later. and then had a Master from Ben Line who signed on as 2nd Mate much to my amazement. he had just been made redundant and wanted to do another two years at sea to increase his pension. A lovely man.
Brian.

[Don Rafferty]

See my Avatar,......................
Brian.

Can't seem to view this 'full size' - what am I doing wrong?

[Captain Kong]

Here is the photo I was 60 years old then.

[Don Rafferty]

Thanks for that - much better.

[Captain Kong]

Regarding wages during the hey days of the Shipping Federation. As these wages for mates and engineers were laid down in the book, the only way to get an increase in wages was to negotiate seniority when at any job interview. So sometimes you joined a company with 10 years seniority. As the unions were against personal negotiations regarding wages etc. as it took the ball out of its court it was a small way round it. Cant remember if the seamen worked on a seniority system re. wages. Brian has an old book so maybe in there. Cheers John Sabourn. .
.
.Hi John, re :Seniority system. In the NMB Book Year1958. page 85 Note H. quote.....
Seniority Increments.....It is at the option of the Company to Pay Seniority Increments to ....Boatswains, Carpenters, Donkeymen Pumpmen Storekeepers Lamp Trimmers. for Continous Service in that grade in the Company.
There is no mention of Seniority Payments to ABs or other Ratings.
Cheers
Brian.

[Louis the Amigo]

Hi shipmates, the only one I came across was a black engineer officer 2nd from some part of Africa on an all white /european ship, he was not allowed to use they mess, and had to eat with the crew, he was a real gentleman, and well educated ,he could speak a few languages but that did not help him mix with his fellow officers on that ship? they did not want a non white officer in the engine room? or the ship? he payed off first port he could, dont know what happen to him?but he took it well and never lost his temper. hope he had a good life.