Purser or Supercargo

[j.sabourn]

The only other alternative could be that Runcimans were unable to procure a Ch. Stwd. and employed an outsider who insisted he was a purser and maybe signed on as Purser/ Ch.Stwd. I would hate to think what the Chief Cook would have thought of such an arrangement at that time. Most Ch. Stwds were ex Ch. Cooks and the ch. Stwds all had cooks tickets. He must have been in a very manic depressive state of mind to commit hari kari anyway so he could have believed he was what he professed to be. Cheers John Sabourn.

[happy daze john in oz]

On NZSC ships that could take 12 passengers there was only a chief steward but very often the catering department was only about 10 crew members.

[Greg Kemp]

Going through some of my fathers stuff from the 50's, he was Capatin in Blue Star, it would appear that in those days the purser did a lot of the cargo related paperwork, filling in or making out B/L's etc and so was most likely quite a valuable member of the crew, especially so loading and discharging.
Come forward to my era and the purser was usually a pizz head who slept half the day and all the night but who occasionally made up a crew list, dished out subs etc. In C.P. they combined the Purser and the Chief Stewards job into one and boy were some of them not puffed out blighters claiming they had two qualifications. Most of us could think of two but they are unprintable. Eventually C.P. got rid of them and the Captain took over the job. Nobody noticed the difference except the quality of food increased, the price of beer and fags dropped and the storerooms always were full with the contents of them all being well inside the "use by" date.
On the Empress boats even the most junior purser got an entertainments allowance, yet only the captain, staff captain and chief officer got one.
The Pursers were supposed to be the interface between the ship and the passengers and as such they were meant to handle all the passengers complaints etc. and were supposed to be experts in people handling skills, similar to that of a hotel manager.
Hmmmmmmm... the ones I knew had about as much interpersonal skills as I have space pilots skill, one even accusing a very irate passenger whose accomodation had been entered by a another passenger twice, of making the whole thing up. This after he had chased the other passenger around there deck with a knife threating to kill him if he caught him. The passenger being chased had on the second time he had entered the wrong cabin had caught the wife coming bollocko out of the shower and had made some rather inappropriate moves on her.
Fun I had trying to calm a knife weilding passenger down (half a bottle of scotch) and to say I was slightly pizzed off when eventually a purser turned up he, as said, started to accuse the victim of making up the story....wrong think to do with a half pizzed, knife weilding passenger who was ex. marine corps.
Supercargoes were, as said, usually ex. Ch. Offs or even Captains put on board by and employed by, the vessels charterers. Most of them were O.K. especially so as most of them had quite generous expense accounts so were always good for a pizz-up ashore on them.
rgds
Capt. John Arton (ret'd)

This was a helpful response - I’m noticing that this post is ten years old however. Are you still active? I’m wondering if that same was true in the 17th century. The same kind of distinction between purser and supercargo? I’m a novice writer and have spent a lot of time researching that era. Both roles did exist then, but what made them different is hard to determine from what I’ve read.

- Greg

[j.sabourn]

Greg, it’s sometimes good to go through old posts to see what we were like. when younger, not too much different in fact than what we are today. However there is one addittional post I could of added regarding the subject of tipping . On the one ship I was on that carried legally 12 passengers and will not admit to anymore , we carried 2 stewardesses both very attractive ladies , I personally saw one retired Doctor give the stewardess looking after his cabin and welfare give her two hundred dollars after a 6 weeks voyage . I doubt very much she shared it with her shipmates , the retired passenger was in his eighties so if she received for anything outside of her regular duties she would of had to work very hard to earn it. Cheers JS .
The difference I was lead to believe was that the title purser entitled that person to have the doubtful title of ships officer and entitle him to join Pension funds etc. and also unions as such. This would I think have been about the. 1970 era. What’s in a name you might say , nothing I would say , the title Commodore is a Royal Navy Title and not merchant navy the same as captain , and is purely a complimentary title and used to have no legal standing unless you held the Queens commission . Today all is accepted as a done job and no one questions . Cheers JS
PS If you are conversant with earlier century’s RN sailing capital warships you will be aware that most carried a sailing master , he was the real man sailing the vessel and were mostly merchant seafarers in the ships complement who worked the ship. All the kudos were kept for those waving swords or better known in naval circles as cutlass’s . JS

[Johnny Kieran]

Seeing this thread jogged my memory.
On the City Of Ely, just by the accommodation ladder, there was a door with a brass name plate above it, and it said "Supercargo". Nobody lived in it, but when we got on the Borneo coast, a little Chinese looking guy moved in there. He stayed there the whole time we were on the coast of Borneo. I was told he was like an agent, dealing with cargo business. In port was the only time I ever saw him come out.
So, I suppose it means "neither crew, nor passenger".

[J Gowers]

Only ever came across a Supercargo once. I was 2/E (1985) working for Swedish Caledonia (Swecal) and I was on the Stena Hispania a RO-RO running from Europe to West Africa. When we reached Monrovia this guy would come on he was a British C/O and he helped facilitate the unloading and loading in Monrovia, Takoradi, Tema, Abijan, Lagos and back to Monrovia where he left. We (the engineers) assisted with unloading cars, trucks etc and the maintaining of a few forklifts and trucks used for pulling of the lowloaders etc off and on the ship. He was employed by the charters and if we had been good boys and helped him we got a brown paper envelope second time in Monrovia, can't remeber how much it was but it paid the bar bill for the month, think the captain and the mates got more than the engineers but they never told us how much they got. Nothing to do with the subject but a new Scana truck comes with a toolkit that includes a Bahco shifter, I think everyone on the ship ended up with a bahco even the catering guys.

[Graham Shaw]

#36 JG

Heh heh,Oh dearI ,bet I wasn't the only one to rush to my Googler to look up what the dickens a Bahco Shifter was !.....
Oh no,it's just one of them,what we would call....an adjustable shifting spanner!. Named from the original company B.A.Hjorn and Co.i.e.Bahco,a Swedish good quality product no doubt-the Volvo of all spanners!,unlike the one in my home toolbox which is (probably--I won't check) from a South Korean company called something like Cop-Pee 4 Yue 2

As a mate,I would though have settled for my little brown envelope instead of a spanner,and hoping that it contained Dollars.and not any West African Franc notes, Cedis or Naira!.Did you declare your lovely Bahco's at U.K. Customs?....


Re Supercargo's; We did a Clan Line charter from UK to East Africa and their Supercargo sent with us was an ex-Marconi Radio Officer,who had learnt a lot about cargo stowage over his seagoing career and was a great asset to both the Mate and a good guy for the rest of our crew with his local knowledge of establishments to visit in LM;Dar es Salaam and Mombasa ! Just remembered his name was Malcolm,after 50 years.! Had a fine head of ginger hair-Art Garfunkel style.Bet there's none left now. Good on ya,Malc !

[J Gowers]

#37 We all got brown paper envelopes mates and engineers, with US dollars inside. Did you have to declare that? well that must have slipped my mind. As you say the Bahco is the best shifting spanner every made the rest are rubbish usually with big jaws that are clumsy to use.

[j.sabourn]

Did they make stilsons as well ? JS

[Graham Shaw]

Did they make stilsons as well ? JS

I went for years calling it a Stillson and never thought once about why it was called that-I mean,why would you? It was years later and after the introduction of t'internet that I learned it was named after the original patent holder-yes you got it-,a Mr.Stillson. I then became bogged down in looking at the etymology of sundry tools,until I had to leave it and do some work,but let me tell you, having to leave those pages of wonderful ,often weird looking tools-was such a wrench!Lotsa Laughing !.jpg

A shameful episode on my first trip cadet year ship was working in the lifeboats and being sent down to the engine room for a 'long stand' by a senior cadet.Me,quite innocently assuming it was a specialised bit of equipment dutifully went down into the bowels of the engine room and pestered the duty engineer for a long stand. He glared at me,then just about chased me up the ladders,telling me exactly what I could do with my long stand-something about putting it in a secret place in the senior cadet's anatomy....