Timewatch TV Programme.

[robpage]

The iron for the Titanic’s rivets,:-

the company ( Hurries & Worries of Belfast ) ordered No. 3 bar, known as “best” — not No. 4, known as “best-best,” according to their records , The central section used Steel rivits which several companies had changed over to years before . . Shipbuilders of the day typically used No. 4 iron for anchors, chains and rivets, The scientists analised 2 out of 3,000,000 rivits from the wreck , The wrought Iron contained more slag inclusion than expected in rivits of the era , they used Iron from the Brooklyn Bridge as a comparison . The 2/3,000,000 test is a little suspect and because of the sample size , I regard the data as not accurate . The claim that the ripping apart of the plates stopped at the steel rivits also coincides with a change in the section of the hull so is not as simple as the scientists ( who take part in TV programmes and sell books ) make it to be .There was 9.3% slag inclusion in the rivits which is 3 times higher than it should have been , the heads "popped " off on the impact , similar results were found in a dive on the SS Olympic , as the weak rivits pop the load on the remainder increases so they pop too . The resulting report from the US , National Institute of Standasrds and Technology concluded that there was no metalurgical problem as could have been forseen by the Engineers at the time , the report is 203.158.100.100/charud/specialnews/3/titanic/titanic.pdf , it makes interesting reading . I understand though if it had not hit the iceberg the rivits would have still been OK years later , One of the three lasted at least twenty five years . The shifting of a portion of blame to Harland and Woolf because there was a shortage of skilled riviters seems a little bit of schoolyard blame game . Who has ever been in a shipyard that has enough welders , platers , fitters , they always have shortages . When a rivit is in correctly you tap it with a hammer , if it is good it rings , bad ones have a dull thud , and have to be replaced , it is hardly rocket science , the skill is working with white hot metal without burning your hand off , and beating enough of it at the back to make a good head

So yes better rivits may have given them another hour to save a few more lives , so would hitting the ice berg at a different angle , full height watertight compartments , lifeboats numbers above the Board of Trade requirements . Jack Phillips listening to the message from the Carpathia instead of doing hios job and sending 1st Class telegrammes ,Charles Lightowler filling the boats ,keeping out of the labrador current , lots of things could have helped .

I in twenty years of seagoing experience have had two big panic jobs , and you do your job to the best of your training and face the inquiry , when they have a bigger picture later , when they look for WHO to blame . I , as said before have a fascination with that rotting iron coffin 13.5 miles away from where the Titanic's officers thought they were and 13,000 feet below the surface because all the engine room crew died , and when I joined B&C , eight years earlier the Capetown Castle took seven men to an early grave as the air system exploded , that ministering angel in what was a rather dirty memorial made me realise that I should have stayed at home in the Derbyshire hills and taken up a safer occupation , like coal mining , or quarrying !

May God rest all those souls that went down with the Titanic and after this Centenial , may the story writers , the newspaper hacks , the TV crews the University students who write papers ,Hollywood, all let them rest in peace .

[happy daze john in oz]

saw on tv last night articles being auctioned that came from the titanic.Can anyone tell me how a lunch menu that was in mint condition and had survived the rigors of the sinking could be genuine bearing in mind it was the maiden voyage so it could not be from previous voyages.
john sutton

Not beyond the realms of possibility. Having seen some of the items brought up from Titanic there is a possibility they are in good condition. There is also the possibility that they were all printed ashore bfore sailing and some never made it to the ship.

[Jim Brady]

As i understand it the menu was put into a ladies hand bag,she was rescuedand had the handbag with her.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Captain Kong]

similar results were found in a dive on the SS Olympic , as the weak rivits pop the load on the remainder increases so they pop too . Robpage.
.
.
. Hi Rob, I think there is a mistake there, the `S.S. Olympic` never sank, she went to the breakers in 1938.
Could be the other `Sister` Britannic, she sank in 1915 after being sunk by the Germans in Greek Waters, while sailing as a hospital ship in WW1.
just thought I`d mention it,
Cheers
Brian.

[Peter Trodden]

Brian,
another interesting point about the Britannic,She never served in White Star Line colours. She was launched 26 Feb 1914 H& W and while fitting out WW1 started,She was then converted into a Hospital Ship. I think ?? She hit a mine in the Med,causing Her loss.
ttfn.Peter.

[happy daze john in oz]

I think there is a mistake there, the `S.S. Olympic` never sank.....

Olympic, Britanic and Titanic, all sister ships. Violet Jessop the only crew member to have served on all three and survived the fate of all three. Captain Smith was on the Olympic with Jessop when off the Isle of White it was hit by HMS Hawke. Three compartments flooded and Jessop got off. She was on Britanic when she was hit by a torpedo.

[Captain Kong]

I am glad I didnt sail with her, she was a Jonah.

[John Pruden]

speaking of Jonah!!!!my uncle EDWARD PRUDEN was in the RN before during and after the war he and my father in law went to every part from battles to convoy duty. as being old hands they went from ship to ship anyway uncle Edward was torpedoed 5 times my nan had all 5 telegraph messages in frames on the best room {parlor} on the wall so every time i or one of my brothers would be sailing you know the usual a bit of a party the night before sailing and his parting words when he was full of froth was I WISH I WAS GOING WITH YOU and he used to get the same answer you can f... o.. every ship you was on had the **** blown out of it? god rest the two of them i am still trying to get there service records they were even entitled to their Russian convoy medals but never lived to get them but when we got together the captain Morgan flowed all night .good times and they went through it but always a good yarn and many of them.JP

[robpage]

I think there is a mistake there, the `S.S. Olympic` never sank....

Sorry about that , The NIST investigation had worked on Photographs from the Olympic collison with HMS Hawke and a dive on Brittanic , It was a long and boring read , so confusion set in . Interesting though , but I still believe that 2 out of 3,000,000 rivits is a very small sample , and a long read in paralleled by the intake of Bombay Saphirre , at the rate of 50ml per hour .

[happy daze john in oz]

50ml per hour, mate you are slowing up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!