why ships sink

[Ron Kendall]

Some of the new ones being built, will carry over 6000 passengers, goodness knows how many crew, I think I will keep well away, even if I should win the lottery!

[Tony Wilding]

but they look ugly also, not at all like a ship, even the hull is obscene, just nasty objects. certainly not shipshape.

[Tony Morcom]

An enlightening documentary which argued some good points. Interesting to hear what they had to say about the Italian Captain and Captain Smith. My wife is now a confirmed NON cruise addict having watched it with me.

[happy daze john in oz]

One point on Titanic that is not widely spoken about was the quality of the rivets in the bow section. The main hull had been riveted using the new riveting machines rather than the hot ones. But the machinery waould not fit into the bow section due to shape so that part was hand riveted. But the rivets used were of iron not steel as had been used on the hull. In the icy cold waters the structure of the steel changed and when the burg hit the rivets poped open. The quality and design problem only acme to light when some were brough to the surface and examined. It is believed cost factors were to balme.

[Captain Kong]

For those who will not cruise anymore after seeing those floating bin bags, the only place to go with a cruising environment with Seafaring memories is on the old Queen Mary in Long Beach Ca.
A lovely ship with good restaurants and bars, she goes no where, is in an enclosed lagoon so will never be in a collision and will not sink as she has only a couple of feet below the keel.
Rates are quite reasonable. The Champagne Sunday Brunch is one not to be missed, see menu, as much as you can eat of Everything with a continuous supply of Champagne. see on the site.
Easy to get to, take a Shuttle Bus from L.A. Airport to the gangway. $17.each.
Try her you will enjoy her. go to .................. www.queenmary.com

[Tony Morcom]

..... But the rivets used were of iron not steel as had been used on the hull. .....

The White Star historian actually showed one of the rivets found on the sea bed and was talking about that very point on last nights documentary.

[Tony Wilding]

The Italians have stated they want the Costa Concordia removed in one piece. patch all the holes and on superstructure and seal, then pump full of air, get her upright and tow her away, future uncertain as to repair or sell on. will take one year to do this must be the biggest complete ship removal ever.

---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 PM ----------

regarding the musician who survived 2 cruise ship sinkings, it was amazing what he did on the first, to go up on a deserted bridge and operate the radio to call for help, with no training of radios, then to organise the evacuation of passengers, he and his wife the last taken off the ship which sank very soon after, a very brave man.he went below and realised the ship was sinking, water everywhere, does anyone know what happened to the captain after, was he italian, ?

[John Arton]

A very interesting thing in the program last night was the entertainer who was on the Oceanos when it sank and that he was the one that raised the mayday, the captain (another italian?) and officers already having got themselves off and to safety.
What got me about the Oceanos was the fact that a broken valve could cause so much flooding to go unoticed. Where were the bilge alarms which must have been fitted in the generator room and also why did the emergency bilge pump, which has a capacity of at least that of the largest pipe inflow in the engine room, not kick in and keep the water level down until the engineers could fix the leak. Guess those questions were asked at the official enquiry.
What bad luck that enterainer has had, rescueing loads on the Oceanos and then having to abandon the Achillo Laura after it caught fire. At least the crew on that one seemed to scted correctley sfter the fire got beyond their efforts to control it.
As was pointed out most emergency situations requiring passenger control are handled by the entertainment staff who have little or no training in safety matters or crowd control. Indeed as one commentater said the entertainment and the other staff, i.e cabin and bar, attend safety meetings where they, in his words, are told "the pinot grigio wine is running low, push the pinot noir".
Nothing against any hotel staff on passenger ships as the job they do for the pay (I heard Carnival at one time was paying its Filipino cabin staff $1 a day but they made it up with their tips. Apparentley on Carnival cruises as soon as you board you are asked to swipe your credit card for on board gratuities to the tune of $200 per passenger, like or lump it it is demanded of you or they may refuse to allow you to sail.
The latest lethians being built will hold 6000 passengers, but the only increase in staff will be in the hotel side and entertainment staff, so the ratio of seamen to passengers will be tiny. Although the flag states etc will do nothing about this how come it not about time that ALL staff onboard these ships go through a minimum level of safety and crowd control training. If you take the offshore industry as an example any staff on a platform, whatever their job, has to go through a certain amount of basic training so how come all staff on these passenger ships can get away without any safety training beyond what they pick up from watching the drills and what little instruction can be given to them during all on board's working day.
rgds
Capt. John Arton (ret'd)

[Tony Wilding]

well am not too sure how many have sunk, one in antarctica, one hit a rock in the agean, the oceanos, the achillo lauro, costa concordia, one caught fire off mexico, costa allegra fire and one last week off philippines, not a good record, at least 3 italian owned, another damaged in a storm off egypt and passengers injured, they are supposed to be able to keep clear of bad weather, ? ? ? disasters waiting to happen, i believe a P and O ship had problems off australia, the windage of that high superstructure must really affect stability in high winds and rough seas, can you imagine the panic of 6000 people in a extreme situation. my brother went round cape horn on one, lucky it was calm, but thats a bad place for weather changes.

[Captain Kong]

This is a paragraph from WIKIPEDIA...............
.
Captain Yiannis Avranas was accused by the passengers of leaving hundreds behind with no one other than the ship's onboard entertainers to help them evacuate. Avranas claimed that he left the ship first in order to arrange for a rescue effort, and then supervised the rescue effort from a helicopter. Avranas stated, "When I give the order abandon ship, it doesn't matter what time I leave. Abandon is for everybody. If some people want to stay, they can stay."[8]

A Greek board of inquiry found Avranas and four officers negligent in their handling of the disaster.[9]

Epirotiki Lines had lost two other ships within the three years preceding the sinking:[10] the company's flagship Pegasus only two months before, and the MTS Jupiter, three years before. The Oceanos had the highest possible safety rating at Lloyd's Register of Shipping.[citation needed]
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I dont know what kind of action was taken but I seem to think he was gaoled for a couple of years, but I am not too sure.